Rogues need something in TLP's

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Legionarius - Xegony, May 15, 2019.

  1. Xanathol Augur

    I'd love to see some parses in era on mobs without mitigation of the mighty (which lowers everything so much it can be hard to see a difference). In my 2,000 ft view opinion, the issue is more about itemization since the issue goes away at a certain point with certain weapons. Monks get free best in slot weapons for a while compared to Rogues who need to obtain weapons and still aren't up to par until later in the game (pets are a whole other issue entirely).

    Perhaps an autogrant-AA can be introduced that adds a small amount of base damage to the weapon calcs? A small enough amount that it wouldn't effect much in the later game but big enough that its a nice gain early on in a server.
  2. Legionarius - Xegony Lorekeeper

    The only thing i was ahead in my parses was people who weren't paying attention.
  3. Bobbybick Augur

    The problem is you are looking at this in a vacuum.

    It's not even that rogues are weak, it's that other classes are too strong. The answer is not adding more DPS to rogues it's taking it away from other classes but that's not a solution a lot of people want. That's why this shouldn't be a quick bandaid solution because quick bandaid solutions are what add up to these overpowered classes.
  4. Coppercoz Augur

    My suggestion is to save yourself the headache and just re roll now. I bet you can literally find similar rogue posts at a point for each tlp.

    My biggest gripe wasn’t so much dps related, it was how utterly **** rogues become if they have to pick up and tank a mob for any amount of time. Gets a bit better with bs from front aa, but not much. Only time I was remotely effective in these situations was near the end of the expansions and was close to BiS for most slots.
  5. Legionarius - Xegony Lorekeeper

    They have already compensated for strong classes with mark of the mighty but Rogues aren't up there with all the other classes. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel. Just make rogues a little better in groups. you don't have to make them raid gods.
  6. Elemenopi Augur


    Thats the issue, they are forum WARRIORS. Their only tool is the taunt button.
    Accipiter likes this.
  7. taliefer Augur

    get a serpent's tooth in classic, do your epic in kunark.

    really thats about it. you wont be a monk, but you will be on par with the rest of the non gods of norrath.

    rogues are probably the most weapon dependent class in EQ and your weapons generally suck. outside of getting that changed, i dont think there is a quick bandaid solution. maybe adding some augs with backstab damage to the melee aug vendor would help
  8. That0neguy Augur

    What exactly is wrong with rogues again? They are very competitive with monks once you get out of classic. I see plenty of rogues top the charts on a lot of boss fights during VT and Time.
  9. Legionarius - Xegony Lorekeeper

    Dear god people. Do you read? THIS IS NOT ABOUT RAIDING. The epic helps marginally.
  10. Aziuno Augur

    I'm confused... You are complaining that as a melee class you do low DPS with bad weapons, since you don't raid?

    Casters would have the same issue if they weren't getting their "weapons" aka spells.

    P.S. Raiding Rogues are good on DPS once they get weapons... Obviously charm is broken for Classic > PoP, but other than that there shouldn't be a reason you would avoid a rogue as DPS.

    I remember in Luclin/PoP any geared melee DPS got groups pretty dang quick.

    When Phinny had Rogue Poisons, a critical proc on Rogue Poison was doing the same as a Wizard still using SoL spells.... They are not balanced and can't be added to TLP's imo. And nerfing them would be nerfing Live which I don't think is right either.... They weren't around in classic, they shouldn't be.

    P.S. 1.0 is a huge boost for a non raider, as it's a decent Kunark ratio, has haste which is expensive to get good haste, and has attack, along with a decent base dmg for backstab.
  11. Legionarius - Xegony Lorekeeper

    Please go read the thread...
  12. Fluid Augur

    I've found Rogues parse at number 2 on my list, only behind people complaining about Krono farmers.
  13. Tierdal Augur

    They have something. Monk at character select.
  14. Accipiter Augur


    When was that?
  15. Spayce Augur

    Change was made around the end of Kunark on Coirnav. It is in the patch notes.

    The only reason I cared was because I clicked the "Buy Now" link on the Incarnadine Greaves to put an appearance aug in them, and the armor set that I received was plate...which wouldn't fit in the legs because the leg graphic field was incorrectly set to cloth (or leather). Out of principle I was not going to let them keep my money if the bug wasn't fixed.

    It's a bug that had been in the game for decades, but since there were 2 versions of Incarnadine Legs/Greaves, they never bothered to fix the graphic field on one of the items since they didn't know both existed.
  16. Spayce Augur

    You are being willingly confused.

    You know Mangler is months away from Luclin/PoP.

    You know the OP is talking about Classic and early Kunark before epic 1.0 is common for all but the most hard core Rogues.

    Fact of the matter is Rogues are terrible until they get epic 1.0 in Kunark, at which point they improve to "not useless". Gear in Velious allows them to top DPS meters, or at least compete, reliably.

    Rogues could definitely use something to bump their DPS in Classic and early Kunark, and perhaps even through Kunark and into early Velious.

    So if ignorant people could stop chiming in with useless posts, and some intelligent person could put together actual data and spell out a relatively easy to implement solution that doesn't break the game in other ways, maybe something could get done. The issue is that nobody really cares enough about Rogues during the first 5-8 months of a TLP server to put in the legwork to get a change like this rolling.
  17. Random newb Augur

    The best way to address this would be to compile suggestions and create a ticket on the issues tracker.

    For instance they could create an aug that procs a version of shissar at a higher it lower ppm, they could create backstab damage augs with a maximum damage, or rogue only 1hp base damage augs to make up the ratio difference. Again use a max damage amount so they can't be used forever, I believe this is possible because ldom had minimum delay for augs.

    Reason I suggest augs is because creating these would be easier then making new poisons for a tlp or rebalancing weapons around backstab and base damage separation.
  18. Zinkeh Elder

    I'm not sure where this "rogue is worst" thing comes into play. Every raid I've been on from classic to the end of Pop rogues were only slightly below Monks and Wizzies here and there.
  19. a_librarian Augur

    make chaotic stab innate
  20. That0neguy Augur

    Actually its not. The thing any dev hates the most is being told what the solution is. You are better off clearly stating what the problem is and how it affects you. Allow them to do their job and come up with a solution.
    Gana likes this.

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