Rogues & Dps

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Kyos, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. Bamboompow Augur

    Just some context:

    1) As a rogue using your burns all the time grouping will make you good friends with those you group with. Use all the tools given. After all, on raids a rogue will make high combined parse only if they are focused on killing trash mobs that the other "elite" dps class might not blow their burns or mana/endo on. Those wizards and zerks might need to hold back on trash so they get on the trophy parse for a boss. You have to have a disc running at all times, spamming quick refresh skills, making sure poison is not used up etc. Big piles of trash mobs are a good time for the big burn that other classes have to wait 20-30 minutes for.

    2) If you raid, the overall speed your guild drops targets will influence parse and the so called pecking order.

    If your raid leadership stacks burst classes like wizards and zerks, than there is a good chance most targets melt in seconds and classes that require more duration to shine will get knocked off. That is why on these short fights sometimes rangers can sneak in. Sadly for rogues, those guilds with those burst heavy raid builds don't always seem to have room for you and all your adps needs. What rogues there are (some just have a token single rogue) get put in the fluff melee group and if any adps classes are in short supply, the rogue group might be last picked for dodgeball. If the raid has 10 well played wizards than there are 10 parser slots displayed, right? Coincidence? There is a good chance they might hold all the visible slots in the pasted parse in EQ or it would be wizards and zerks. The rogue might not be that far down from slot 10, but that is enough to influence a raid leader's decisions. Check that out! A class that never makes the parse. Why is that class here again? Find me more wizards...

    Plus it doesn't help that as a rogue you really need to pay attention and mash the crap out of buttons while a half asleep wizard on mind altering substances can put out decent numbers and out-parse a rogue in spite of their hard work. It gets discouraging.

    So its so much that rogues are horrible. It is just that stacking fast kill raid builds makes them moot. If raid mobs were more magic resistant and had higher AC, the outcome would be different.
    Maxxbuff1 likes this.
  2. Kaliko Augur

    Uh...... I don't know where you get your info or parses but rogues excel at fast kill raids because their discs are virtually up for every event with the reuse being so short and their dps is in a pretty good spot right now unless the rogue or adps is terrible.
  3. Bamboompow Augur

    What dps class isn't going to have their main burns up on an event like Grummus, other than post wipe? Or any other event for that matter? No raid leader is going to be in such a big rush as to not allow cool down times to recycle unless its trivial content. Most refresh during time spent doing loot and going to the next stop anyway.

    The 10 minute refresh on rogue discs carries more weight for the combined parse for the night than any "trophy" parse on a single boss. Its not like rogues can't make the top 10 or even the top on some events but if there are a bunch of wizards and/or zerks (that are not dead), than that target is going to be vaporized long before any rogue gets into a second full series of burns.
  4. Ravengloome Augur


    Some guilds clear the expansion rather quickly. Theres a good chance main burns might not be up for every burn mob. Why would a raid leader wait for burns? There is not much reason or cause too in TBM (or any expansion in recent memory).
    Sancus likes this.
  5. Behelit Augur

    If your Zerkers have their burn up for Grummus you're doing Akkapan Adan wrong or you take a ridiculously long time with loot (17-18 minutes minimally to get Zerker discs up for Grummus).

    Theres a few events I dont get to burn on cause of refresh timers: Anashti in Sul Vius:Life, Grannus, High Bokon/Anashti in Crypt of Sul you get one or the other (normally save burn for Anashti and coast through High Bokon), and Grummus.

    TBM is pretty trivial at this point for most raiding guilds, I can't imagine any sort of majority wait for discs to refresh for every event. It's not about being a rush, more so not wasting 10+min sitting around to shave off 45-100sec of the event time.
    Sancus likes this.
  6. Bamboompow Augur

    Not every guild is RoI. Also, this is just splitting hairs maybe.
  7. Ravengloome Augur


    Yes you are right, but id fancy a guess almost every guild in the top 10 and even some in the bottom 10 of completion can finish some of these raids fast enough that burns wont be all up for every class by the next event.
    Sancus and Behelit like this.
  8. Behelit Augur

    This, also we got the Akkapan Adan AE-adds-method from a lower ranked guild (pretty sure they aren't even top 10). So having high dps/lower fight time isnt exactly the only factor in disc refresh issues from event to event, its also when in the event you're burning. And if you aren't burning at the very end of Akkapan Adan even without the AE-adds-method, then you're doing it wrong as a Zerker and losing damage on the night for a shiny Grummus parse (and probably losing Akkapan too).
  9. Ravengloome Augur


    SCREW THE COMBINED I JUST WANT THE SHINY BURNS
    Sancus likes this.
  10. Kobrah Augur

    Behelit just kills off charmed people whenever he can. Keeps his combined nice and high all them insta kills /nod.
  11. Bahdah Augur

    What the lump Behelit !
  12. Ravengloome Augur

    The real pro strat