I don't understand why rogues are, getting beat in dmg by utility classes and by monks who can attack from the front and still do max damage, and even rangers on some fights, this just does not seem right to me at all, and something needs to be adjusted with rogues this is not a post saying other class need to be nerfed, this is a post saying rogue SUSTAIN dmg needs to be upped, only class i understand fighting with for dps is a zerker other then that, rogues should always be number 1 or 2 on dps.
You should talk to your fellow rogues to find out why you are not parsing well. DPS is completely player driven. Doesn't matter how much DKP you spend or AA you spend or augs you use, if you don't press the abilities in the right order or have the correct group makeup for support and buffs, you will parse lower than other classes who pay better attention to such things.
Some of the best rogues I know either main swapped or were thinking about it, ironically one to a monk. Even doing everything right a rogue still kind of sucks.
Thank you for contributing something useful to this thread, you sir deserve a reward for your awesome contribution and staying on topic with the thread -__- begone pest.
Is quite odd how rogues with all the special needs they have to dps, parse worse than classes with added utility and no such requirements. Was a time when rogue dps really stood out, now it is just weaker dps with the added bonus of a rogue complaining about the mob positioning not being quite right. Further, they have turned a lot of the rogue's utility, sensing traps, disarming traps, picking locks, into a special item now. So they are getting less dps for more requirements to dps, with no real utility to show for it. Back to dragging corpses for the rogues it seems...
I am contributing to your cause, kind sir. Not many people will bother reading that gibberish you posted. Even fewer will take you seriously because of the obvious carelessness. I am gone!
I remember how rogues really sucked in the original eq. Then RoK came out and with assassination and Epic 1, rouges were just insane DPS for the time. In Sebilis, I would join a group and their kill rate would skyrocket. You were so excited to get a rogue in your group, because of how much faster you could kill. Fast Forward 13? yrs later and now you couldn't tell if a rouge or a SK joined your group. Rogues sustained dps is awful, they should be doing double their sustained that they are now imho. I think this whole raid burn BS really killed a lot of classes in the group/non burn game. Zerkers are in the same boat. Awesome for about 90sec with the moons aligned, then not much better than any non dps class, if not worse. I revived my rogue about 6 months ago and leveled him up to 100, with top raid weapons, only to find how awful their dps has become. I was really expecting about double the dps then what I was getting. What's the point of playing one, when you can play an SK and do slightly less sustained, but take 10x better??
My solution.......Roll at least 3-4 different classes! Level each one to 100 and pile on about 5k AA. Main change as needed
Posts like this always seem over-dramatic and don't really advance the cause of the class in question. Do you have any numbers? How much dps are you doing in a non burn situation and how much is an SK doing? What does slightly mean in this case? Do you normally have a bard and/or shaman in group? Without details it's hard to take these arguments seriously.
While I would strongly argue that a competent rogue will blow an SK out of the water when it comes to dps, the comparison should never come up in any realistic discussion. That said, it is well known that rogues can no longer be compared to zerkers or monks either. With or without ideal adps support, the gap between rogue/zerker, and rogue/monk is still glaringly obvious. I can only assume that it isn't a matter of nobody wanting to fix them, but instead, they don't know how. The really sad part is that now we are going to see the same type of woe-is-me posts lamenting the current state of rogues.
Funny thing about this statement is that during beta...and outside of beta...plenty of rogues have given good suggestions on how to help fix this...but...it seems they've been largely (if not completely) ignored. -_- I won't main change...I'd rather just retire than play something other than a rogue. That's all I'll say about that, though.
From what i'm seeing so far atleast what COTF is showing, is that when we got KnifePlay that it was a bit of step in the right direction as it's a big sustain disc, the bad thing about it is it plays on our endurance, so as someone mention on thesafehouse, if there's a AOE with a huge endurance or even a reg endurance drain, then we are out of luck. Not to mention if we die there goes the sustain, as we will be low on endurance and even with rest Rank3 it won't be enough to keep knifeplay going for it's duration that it last, because we will have to use incursion/gash ect and keep them up, and all of this takes lots of endurance, i just wish they make it so backstab is affected by the actual weapon dmg and not the backstab dmg on the wep, i think that would be a nice boost, and really help with the sustain and our burst all at the same time.
I think everyone agrees that rogues should be doing about the same DPS as zerkers and definitely more than monks and beastlords, but my argument still stands. What kind of numbers is a rogue doing compared to a zerker and monk? I definitely agree that rogues should always be among the top 3 DPS classes at any time, but when you just make generalized arguments it doesnt really prove anything
I never said that Rouges can't out damage an SK, but that the difference in sustained dps, is not even close to large enough. The problem is the whole raid burn issue. They should never have focused on giving classes burn abilities, they unbalance a class, especially in the group game, where there isn't always the supporting classes in a group.
The biggest change here IMO would be to scale up backstab critical damage to look more like other spell/melee critical damage. BS damage has one of the lowest crit modifiers of any major damage type. The 'Assassins Wrath' AA line provides MUCH smaller returns than the comparable Veteran's Wrath or Destructive Fury lines. If I played a Rogue main, I'd be furious over this as not only is it holding back Rogue DPS, but contributing to unnecessarily high Rogue agro.
I'm read that they are trying to buff rogues through AA, i'm not sure how well that is gonna go or work out unless it is big, i have seen wiz mercs do more dmg then rogues in a grp which is sad.
Yes, Knifeplay definitely helps. Although...I don't know about other rogues, but I can actually still regenerate endurance while this is running...it's not using more than I regenerate per upkeep cycle. Also, with regards to endurance and whatnot in general...you can pop escape real fast and hit the respite line to get some quick endurance back...so it's not really a valid argument, though there could still be problems with endurance drains, I guess. There was some talk about a backstab crit cap, actually...as in...if a backstab does X amount of damage pre-crit, then it's unable to crit. I'm not sure on the specifics of it and whether it's being looked at, but I know some people pointed it out.
Yeah that would be good if they fix or took off the cap, i guess all we can do is wait and hope SOE see's that the rogue class needs some work.
