Magicians can burn for 350k via utilization of the Steel Vengeance AA, proper utilization of Parogrossio, and the Large Modulation Shard AA. Unfortunately all magicians like to play with fire, so our ability to burn is severely crippled.
@Random_Enchanter I think one thing that Mills has said is that burst DPS has a lot more flexibility when they want to use their Burst damage. Your example: 2) 500k damage in the first minute followed by 100k damage every minute there of. Could also be 100k for 1 min, 500k for 1 min, followed by 100k for 2 min or 100k for 2 min, 500k for 1 min, followed by 100k for 1 min. or 100k for 3 min, 500k for the last min. There is a lot more flexibility with burst classes and that is why they will be more desired in raids.
Burst also rules the group game, remember that big part of the game outside of raids. It also works on multiple mobs in succession. As in if you are putting out 500k on demand dps you can do that on one target for 60 seconds or roughly 3 mobs that live 20 seconds each or 2 mobs that live 30 secs each or 6 mobs that live 10 sec each. Whereas the other method of dps only works when its a single target the entire time AND when the fight lasts that exact duration allowing them to catch up. Any shorter and its not equal. Different circumstances besides single target and its not equal. The on demand burst model is always valuable even if not the star the sustained model is only valuable when under certain circumstances and a loss to the situation otherwise. To much burst is bad just as to much sustained is also bad. Making some classes good at both and others not so much is even worse.
because you're not a pure dps class no matter how much you and other mages want to pretend you're. Sorry just saying what every necro,wizard,rogue,zerker wanted to say.
Hey mills go cry somewhere else. You're delusional you want to do 3 times as much damage just because you cant burst for 400k for 60s. You had your fun the last 9 months now its over move on.
Ok so let's pretend for one second we aren't... What makes Necros any more of a pure DPS class than us? But actually, we are a pure DPS class. What else do I do in raids? So you need one Mage to cast Mod Rods, which haven't even been upgraded since House of Thule. What is the point of having any other Mage in the raid? All we do in raids is DPS. And EQ history supports this, as we've always "traditionally" been below Wizards but above Necros on burst and below Necros but above Wizards on sustained.
Reading your post has me confused not sure if you play a bad caster or you just hate any buffs to melee classes....
the melee boost wasnt that major of a difference in overall sustained besides zerks which im not complaining about so a few classes do still need some buffage but to say we need our own forms of adps from other classes isnt the way to go P.S and some classes burst was hurt in the process but its trial and error just glad there looking into these issues and finding ways to improve it now
Rogues and zerkers both spike much higher in burst. Rogues and zerkers can both do around 200k out to 4 minutes now. It is a major difference as expected. Monks are also doing very well but they are so behind ceiling wise that there is even more of a reason now to make sure they are the last melee class to get into a full support group furthering their concerns. So lets say they are 80% of the total dps of rogues and zerkers because of this they often don't get full support so end up being 60% the total when all is said and done because they are capped at 80% and then got less adps because of that fact. The reason some people aren't seeing this is because these changes failed to address the real issues at hand that many players have a hard time overcoming. Having full support always, after these changes those who didn't get full support are in many cases still not getting full support. Having good support as in syncing everything up well, after these changes those that stunk at syncing up their burn with various adps clicks are still going to stink at it or still have poorly played support classes. Overcoming event and class limitations, even after these changes if you guild doesn't give rogues the backside of the mob or your zerkers can't overcome being blinded or rooted then nothing has changed and your still far behind, if events still penalize slow moving slow to react melee classes they still can't keep pace with casters who don't have as much to react to because their dps is ranged. Thats why these changes handled this way was the bad choice. It didn't fix the real issues at hand it simply tried to cover them up for now.
yeah but those melee classes are THE burst of the melee classes and honestly its about disc utility how often you use what when ect right now monks are dead last but i can assure you besides zerks/rogs (and bsts atm) im still giving them a run for there money now monks being able to do a bit more yeah im all for it but to say i want to do what a rog/zerk does no if it continues to go down that path everyones going to roll a warrior and dps like a wizard
And considering where they should be in the campaign schedule, that might foreshadow what types of content we will be getting. They should be tuning against current (TDS) and in progress content, not against some ideal content that players will not be using.
Not debating this they do not look at just your role in a raid to determine where your class belongs. Your class as a whole brings 10 times more then a wizard brings to the game. Not sure why you guys are even arguing burst or sustained there is one event in TDS that last under 10m and only a few where melee are not handicapped and only 2 where we can use all our disc.
Group content is all about sustained damage. If you're grinding, you want to be constantly killing mob after mob after mob as efficiently as possible. And with respawn timers, consistency in killing times from mob to mob (no burst spikes) better allows you to set up a good predictable pulling pattern (boring instanced crap like HAs negate this). Necros are just a special case of sustained that shine better on single, long living targets. That does not mean sustained is not the ideal target.
So you admit the real issue is event duration, event mechanics and their unequal penalties and that some classes are restrained from fully using there tools. Yet you support a generalized sweeping change that leaves all these factors alone and simply makes stuff look more even because you know it benefits the strongest the most, ie the ones who needed it the least. Then if when they make more burst events, remove the fact the melee are punished moreso then casters either by removing some aspects or penalizing casters more and or adjust how often you can use some other tools that once again stuff will be completely thrown out of whack. Rather than fixing the actual problems which would carry forward regardless of the other issues.
The problems you're referring to are too many to fix. Bers for example have to root,dot,blind themselves and have bard/shm/bst in the group and have perfect timing to get the dps they do take the bst away and they're crap take the bard away and you might as well invite a warrior to dps. None of this will change we've tried for years they will not do it.
Its not very hard to design a roughly equal number of burst events as there are sustained. So overall total damage for the night is close. Its not very hard to design raids that roughly equally penalize archtypes or to remove some features if they penalize one to much. Its not very hard to assure a few mobs cater to everyone like by being rooted, not having any other mobs around to impact AE stuff, like making sure that the few classes that need to self inflict damage on themselves to function at their best are less likely to die from event stuff. They could easily implement the adps suggestions I had to address the issue of missing adps. They could easily reduce the impact but extend the duration of some adps to smooth out dps. Reducing burst for more sustained makes sense. Amplifying both burst and sustained doesn't. Never fixing the problem and going in circles over and over requires far more effort to keep patch work covering it up.
