Rogue or Mage?

I know, I know - play what you like. I am equally interested in both though! A rogue and a magician are LFG for last spot in your group. Who do you pick? Sorry, I know the which class should I play is old, but I am so torn. Thanks guys!

Oops I should also say i am on phinny

Are you planning to raid? If I had a choice between a raid geared rogue or mage, I'd go with the rogue personally unless we needed coth for something (but really either would be fine for a dps slot.) If we're talking a rogue or mage from a guild I've never heard of or that doesn't raid, and the toon may or may not be decently geared, I'd go with the mage because who knows what crap weapons the rogue might show up with or what kind of dps he'll end up putting out, while an undergeared mage can still do ok dps in a group situation.

Mage is much easier as a first class on the server (assuming you aren't twinking), and is much more suited to being self-sufficient outside of a group for farming/soloing stuff closer to your level.

In the group game they both do comparable amounts of damage. When a rogue gets 55+ and epic they should be doing more sustained damage than a mage in comparable gear, but also requires that they have some form of spell haste in the group.

In terms of raid desirability the rogue is in a much better position due to the nerf to mage pets damage and being able to sustain dps throughout long encounters. Mages can do alright on a few fights in Kunark but are typically eclipsed by melee dps and necros.

Grouping: Mage, because as they said above even naked they will do O.K. DPS. Rogue would probably be more fun to play in a group though.
Raiding: Rogue every time. Every raid only needs one mage, for call of the hero.

Thanks for the feed back so far. I would like to say I will raid, but truthfully I don't know that I will because of RL priorities. I have a few krono to work with for twinking, I think I will check in to the class channels in server to see how far my coins can go either way. Thanks a bunch guys

And in Velious, being a rod .

/cry

Duc /threaded this pretty much

All I got to add is that a rogue is very cheap to twink out. 1 Krono is more than enough.

Mage and rogue are complete opposites . Mage can solo , rogue can't. Both classes are needed in raids but Mages are more utility and rogues are beast mode damage. In groups with my rogue none could out-damage me as a rogue for like 2 month straight unless it was another rogue. Started testing at around 52 and only monks came close . Rogues are still best at taking out the trash(busty damage compared to monk consistent damage) . At 55 you get double backstab and then your damage goes up by a lot. max double without disc is about 1500 (level 60) . You usually don't do less than 700 per attempts - It's still hit or miss skill , literally .

I can't tell you much about mages. I got bored at level 2 with my first mage. I'm trying to make another now.

You might want to try wizard . Wiz can solo and does tons of damage It's still not popular in groups. Mages were more popular when i was like pre 60s. People did figure out that rogues actually do a lot of damage and then i didn't have any issues finding groups (+ I'm a nice guy ) . Joining a guild also helps - people are always doing something .

Solid advice right here.

If twinking a Rogue, there are some pretty cheap piercers out there that are fantastic for this era. Intricate Silver Rapier I've seen going for 300ish plat, and is a 13/27 piercer. Rabid Chokidai Fang is a little better at 14/29, but will cost you much more as it's probably the best pre-epic piercer you can get.

For offhands, Obtenebrate Short Sword is decent and is also cheap (300-400ish).

You might also want to invest in +5AC/+55HP (about 200-300plat for the pair) rings with this combo though, as you *will* be tanking quite a bit Maybe get a set of banded armour as well.

Anything else is just gravy (i.e. haste item, etc.) and isn't really needed as you'll be destroying everything in groups up to your 30s easily.

So there you go, how to twink a Rogue for under 1k plat.

I may get some flak for this... but don't make a mage. They've been so thoroughly and unreasonably nerfed that it's painful to witness. Their solo game is currently good but I just don't trust it. You are one-dimensional there and they've shown no reliability with testing pet changes, which means you are one buggy nerf away from temporary uselessness until fixed. In the meantime, while hoping your solo prowess persists... your solo prowess isn't really much superior to a necro or shaman at the moment, while your raid stacking is horrendously lower and all three require proactivity to get into groups anyway.

Rogue is an odd opposite to mages. Kinda head scratchy why these are the two options. You are very gear dependent (mages possibly the least so) and you cannot solo well ever. You will always be either top or respectably close on melee parses on raids and I cannot fathom your role and usefulness ever seeing a hard enough nerf to matter, unlike pets. With a "few krono" to work with you can absolutely twink out very well - fbss/sotd are pretty cheap, most weapons are dirt cheap, etc. You could probably grab an fbss for a few k, two piercers for a few hundred, and fill every other slot with respectable (just not BiS), all for a single krono.

Given the choice between the two I'd argue strongly for rogue. Mages are a raid-nerfed and precariously pet-centered class. Maybe it all works out and I'm wrong... maybe not.

The only reason why I could see the value in picking a rogue over a mage is if your primary focus is on raiding. The struggle is real trying to solo green con mobs on my rogue at lvl 60 only being self buffed (and I have a fungi tunic and fungus covered staff). For a rogues dps to really shine in groups you really need both enchanter haste + preferably shaman buffs. A mage pretty much just needs Clarity and then they are good to go, they already have burnout for their pet so they don't need a lot of additional support. Mage epic pets do nuts damage too, maybe they can't tank super well anymore, but they just shred stuff.

If I were to do it over again I would pick a monk over a rogue. I think their dps is actually slightly better than rogues when both have their epics (in Kunark currently at least) and Monks can tank and solo tons better than a rogue could ever dream of doing.

I started a rogue a couple of weeks ago to start on the server. Yes XP is slowish but much faster than original EQ. I have had no problems getting groups from lvl 5-45. At that point it got a little rough but once I hit 50 and got seb keyed it has seemed easier. I rarely wait longer than 30 minutes for a group and often get an invite within 10 minutes of throwing up the LFG tag. Also getting geared is easier on this class as a starting out toon since rogues are kind of rare so the demand for rogue gear is low keeping the prices down. I was able to obtain the Rabid Chokidai Fang for example, probably the best poker until epic for 900pp. Ravenscale gear is cheap as well.

Do I have a ton of fun raiding on my rogue ? Yes.

Would I have made something else in hindsight ? Probably. But only for a bit of more 'can do it on my own' (i.e. necro or something).

Would I choose to switch now ? Nah. Rogue is fun. I pretty much only log in to raid at this point, so take that bias for what you will.