Didn't see a thread made yet. ~~AA~~ - Improved Frenzied Stabbing Discipline: 3 more ranks adding 6s duration for 18s total added. - Improved Onslaught: rank that adds 100% chance to repeat the BS hit from this ability line. - Weighted Strikes: boosted to like 1500 1h damage bonus. - Assassin's Weapon Mastery: boosted to 40% for 1h weapons. - Improved Swiftblade: doubles the max outgoing hits from 3 to 6. Change this from a disc to an activated AA so it can be used once per mob. Instead of the almost never used outside of one mob once in a great while when discs are down and you pop it 30s before you reengage. Retain a few seconds of being hidden aspect so its a once per mob deal. - Chaotic Stab: bring up the double or triple BS from the front chance to 90%. - Triple Backstab: additional ranks to get to 100% triple BS. Chance for a 4th BS. - Massive Strike: double the base backstab attack for 2800. - Burst of Power: add to rogues only, "Increase Chance of Additional 1h Attack by 50%" since they are unable to dip into the additional 2h attack bonus that monks and zerkers get from this line. - Improved Weapons: reduce the recast time of the Weapon Covenant disc line by 50%. - Hastened Pinpoint: additional ranks. - Improved Alliance: works for all melee being they are proc based. Reduces the counters needed to fulminate their alliance spell by 1 per rank. One or two ranks. ~~Spells~~ [56296/12722] Skorpikis Blade Rk. III Classes: ROG/108 Skill: Offense (Combat Skill) Endurance: 526 Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s, Recast: 10m, Timer: 8 Duration: 6m+ (60 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 16 Offensive Proc Casts <--------------- Remove this limit or make it something like 75 counters. 6: Add Melee Proc: Skorpikis Blade Strike III with 400% Rate Mod [49182/12636] Shrouding Speed Discipline Rk. III Classes: ROG/102 Skill: Offense (Combat Skill) Endurance: 0, Upkeep: 40 per tick Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s, Recast: 20m, Timer: 4 <----------- Put this on its own timer so it has situational use. Duration: 30s+ (5 ticks), Dispelable: No Hate: 1 1: Decrease Weapon Delay by 35% 3: Cast: Shrouding Speed Shock III on Skill Use (200)
I am not level 110 yet. Some of your percentages seem a little high, although I have often thought it was time for quad backstab, I don't know about asking for 100% tripple BS. It might also be helpful if we got a new aa line that allowed a backstab proc, as an ordinary melee based backstab, maybe with full chance of double/tripple/ms depending on how that balances. An aa line reducing the timer on BS might also be a good controlled way to raise dps. The hightened button mashing that this creates of course is helped by autoactivate for those that use it. That is all. -Mindra Skylarker of the Iksarian Broods, Bertoxx.
I was just going by the fact that BS isn't even the most powerful special attack anymore and it still is limited from the front angle. The best special in game has no restrictions and currently hits for a minimum of 3 hits per attempt up to something like 7, it never doubles or singles. To me BS was the most powerful special in game for most of EQ and being limited from the front it could use a bump.
Combined: An Arisen ritualist in 1589s, 1141652k @718472sdps --- BERZERKER + pets 457307k@287795sdps (288704dps in 1584s) [40.06%] --- WARRIOR + pets 282141k@177559sdps (177559dps in 1589s) [24.71%] --- ROGUE + pets 279433k@175854sdps (176632dps in 1582s) [24.48%] --- BARD + pets 121744k@76617sdps (77102dps in 1579s) [10.66%] --- Reverse DS 34k@21sdps (1133dps in 30s) [0%] --- HEALER 0k@0sdps (0dps in 0s) [0%] --- HEALER 0k@0sdps (0dps in 0s) [0%] This is a typical Lesson Burn in HS. WARRIORS have better DPS than Rogues. Berserkers have 100% MORE DPS than rogues. I'm very tired of the lack of DPS increased for rogues over the last 5 years. This is why we cant find groups, and why most rogue players are now Berserkers.
As a class, we're in pretty good shape. RoS feels like we're on a slight decline power wise compared to other dps classes, but we're still competitive. We could use a few tweaks here and there. I also think we could use a little more boost next expansion than some other classes to nudge us up a little bit comparatively. Nothing extreme though. Disciplines: 1) Aculeus Discipline/Skorpikis Blade: While there are situations that I use Skorpikis without Aculeus, they're really designed to be used together. Let's merge them and reduce button clutter. Also look at increasing the proc count limit for Skopikis. 2) Jugular Strike: The damage this does is minimal, but the hate reduction is a useful benefit. With debuff slot limits, it's hard to justify the use of this for the dps it actually does compared to what other classes could use the slot for. Could this be changed to an instant strike versus a dot? Keep the values for the ticks as the instant values for damage/hate reduction, but reduce the recast time to compensate. 3) Ragged Edge: There's something wrong with this disc. It often fades after 1-3 ticks despite there being plenty of endurance. Razor's Edge never had that issue. It would also be helpful to update the description to include the damage bonus so that the difference between Rk I, II and III would be visible without a spell parser. 4) Shrouding Speed Discipline: This has been useless from the get go. It's on the same timer as our main burn disc Twisted Chance. It also has double the recast time as Twisted Chance. As it's on the same timer, it would appear it was envisioned to be used in the same situation -- as our primary burn disc. The problem with that is that when we're burning on a raid, we're likely to have a bard and/or beast in our group supplying us Quick Time and/or Ruaabri's Fury which provide the same effect. There's no reason to use it when we're getting a similar boost while also giving up all that Twisted Chance offers. Not to mention removing our ability to burn every 10 minutes versus 20 minutes. Even without bard/beast support, the tradeoff doesn't add up. Suggestion: move this to timer -1 so that we can use it when it makes sense and also strategically stagger around Quick Time and Ruaabri's fury. If the shared timer was meant to prevent us from stacking the effect with Twisted Chance, give it the same restriction as Knife Play has. Have Rogues Fury AA block it/overwrite it (Twisted Chance is almost always used with Rogue's Fury). 5) Weapon Covenant: This is our weakest discipline and occasionally used as filler. It's also the shortest duration and the longest recast which makes no sense being it's the weakest. We could use an AA line to reduce the recast on this. As a class, we're designed around always having a disc running. If this had a shorter recast time, it would be a nice puzzle piece to occasionally insert if we want to hold off on something more powerful until a current target/phase that's nearly done is done. Endurance: Of the three pure melee dps classes, we're the only one without an alternative to Breather/Hiatus to use in combat for endurance gain. This wasn't really a problem prior to RoS as we're also more efficient with endurance than Monks and Berserkers. However, with the change to raids in RoS immediately putting you in combat/bosses being beyond the fade level cap, this hurts rogues. We can't use our only ability to regain endurance on many events (or certain phases). We also have the weakest auto attack damage and not being able to get endurance prevents us from using any disciplines which we're balanced around always having up, thoroughly neutering us. Either raid design needs to revert to allow the use of Breather/Hiatus OR Breather/Hiatus need to be changed to be allowed to be used in combat OR Rogues could really use an additional endurance utility along the same lines as those that Monks and Berserkers have. I don't really like the approach of class X has this, give it to me too. Hiatus: Please consider this to have been a bad idea and give is a real upgrade to Breather next expansion. What's the use of gaining endurance if you're going to decrease our weapon delay by 1000%? We use our endurance to boost our melee damage. Not being able to do melee damage is counter productive. It also means we're left just sitting and doing nothing for 40 seconds. The doubling of the recast time versus Breather also makes this a non-use. Poisons: The drop rate for the poisons does not match the need in many cases. Rather than increasing the drop rate and infuriating non-rogues, my suggestion is to either change the recipes to make 5 for each combine, or to increase the proc count to something much higher like 300 (they still have a time limit for the charges being used, don't persist through death, and can be dispelled). Also, please make our poisons stackable to 100 rather than 20. Tallon's/Vallon's: These can be great poisons. However, they really require there be four rogues to reach their full potential. They're sort of the original Alliance. The problem is rogues just aren't plentiful enough in most guilds to make this viable. The drop rate (see above suggestion) also lends to their spotty use in non-ideal situations. We're likely being tuned around the potential damage of these, despite the fact that they're not usable for most rogues. We did in fact get our bonus damage for Alliance adjusted down based on someone using the damage numbers from Tallon's/Vallon's in a beta thread to argue it would be too powerful. My suggestion is to phase these out. While I really like the idea of them, I don't think they're practical in today's game (they also use a debuff slot which is something that should be minimized in design). We shouldn't have the potential of these hanging over us in balance calculations. Hero's Toxin: This looks like it is designed to account for the issues with Tallon's/Vallon's and uses the same dropped mats (it requires both the Vallon's and the Tallon's mats) to make. This could be a great alternative to them. However, it's restricted to raid bosses only to get the big damage. Most modern raids are add heavy. Depending on one's guild's tactics, the time rogues spend on the actual boss can be a very small portion of an event rendering the real value of this poison moot. This needs to be adjusted to be get full damage on all raid mobs, not just the boss. Currently it does far less damage to adds than the generic Draconic Poison. A "raid" poison should do more.
Deception of Bristlebane: Transform into Bristlebane, strange faction modifiers and a random chance for something random to happen ranging from a loaf of bread being summonsed to a dps buff.
It is time to remove the change for separate backstab damage from daggers and just let it be the same as the daggers damage. Other classes skill attacks can now blow us out of the water. We can backstab with daggers from 10 years ago and it's not that huge of a difference.
Improvement to Executioner disc. As of right now i will only ever click it if for some reason nothing else is up. I don't really notice an increase in dps when it is used. Weapon Covenant - Maybe an upgraded disc similar to beastlord's bloodlust aa to make it more useful. But keep it on the same timer. Upgrade our escape/ or fix it so we can get out of combat on raids as we used to be able to. As of now only way to get endurance back is by clicking the lingering essence of cazic thule or when I die I can click Hiatus when I get a rez. Otherwise you can't get out of combat on most current raids. For people complaining about Ragged Edge fading to early I have noticed that the reverse ds's from mobs and some spells cause this disc to drop instantly. So that could be the issue for this. I agree with the poison components not dropping often for the non-draconic poisons. For those I have had no issues getting components. Another raid poison that doesn't require 4 rogues to take advantage of would be nice. Its hard to get enough rogues in raid to take advantage of it. A upgrade to hero's toxin maybe? Seemed like a nice line of poisons when they originally came out.
I really like the position rogues are in. We are amazing DPS when played correctly and have some fun group game utilities. If I had a wishlist it would be to make poisons more part of the game for rogues. Even the best poisons in the game make a minimal difference to dps (ignoring alliance of course).
I really do not believe you, want me to come with a parsing that shows different ? This not the numbers I seen in raids.
Who said this was a raid pars? P.S .. I'm too lazy to make up numbers. Its kind of silly to say you don't believe a parse … maybe you meant something else.
It was clearly a group parse. That said, it was one rogue's parse, and not necessarily representative of what other rogues can do. Your dps was low for a 26 minute parse with a bard in the group. I'm not sure what sort of math you use, but that zerker did not do 100% more damage than you. A bit dramatic on your part. You can't use the parse of a single group to make claims about class balance. That makes it more about the people behind the keyboards than about the potential of the classes. I do think we can use a bit of a boost compared to zerkers in the next expansion, but it's not a huge gap like it was a couple years ago. I can beat good zerkers. The great ones still have an edge. I never have problems with people not wanting me for dps.
LOL ok you got me. I was dramatic. I'm sad that you think my DPS was low. Please consider HS MOBS are all Yellow Con MOBS. I think my DPS was on point, however there is little to no rogue competition on my server for comparison. I would love to see other similar situation parses for comparison. Same group in FM, I am hitting 350K DPS... even the best zerkers have a hard time keeping up with this... but I'm looking for Rogue DPS improvement on current content mobs. It could be that I just suck...
I'd like to see the assassination chance unlinked from HDex, or the base chance significantly improved, particularly from the front arc so you actually see assassination meaningful in a solo environment before level 105-ish. Also, permit deadly strikes from any angle.
Having rear arc is part of playing a rogue. They should absolutely not increase the chance of backstabs from the front. I'd actually prefer they completely get rid of frontal backstabs. It takes away from the uniqueness of the class. While it would be fun to increase the assassinate rate, that would overpower us on blue con humanoids and likely get us on the nerf list. And the nerfs would likely target all the wrong things rather than assassinate as they tend to always miss the true cause of being overpowered and take sledgehammers to the targeted class. We'd lose ground on even and higher con mobs.
Please re-read my post more closely. I did not suggest an increase to backstab chance from any direction, or an increase to the rate of assassinations in groups at the current endgame level.
