Ok then avoid linking very specific parses in this forum plz (or at least explain this is very specific and not a common thing), this is typically the thing to do to have an ability nerf even if this was not your goal, simply because people take easy shortcuts most of the time.
It was more the "Now rogues can plow through current content mobs" comment. It's obvious trolling and rhetoric to try and get people annoyed. Incase you don't understand, rogues can't plow current content. Rogue + an entire group of additonal characters can, but not just rogues. This is not the same thing, not even remotely close. You may as well have said clerics can plow through current mobs too.
Don't let them bother you Wiji the two crt's always have very specific agendas in mind. How dare you show actual rogue results in a manner they wouldn't. You should spell out exactly that this is a group rogue, with x amount of aa, using such and such abilities, in a very specific part of a zone, with a full group and adps, with such and such buffs when the bloodmoon is up. Otherwise rogues could be viewed at as anything but inferior in all regards as some vocal people would like you to believe. This change did nothing but hold rogues down. Although they did the exact same thing with the fictitious claim of necros sustaining 40-90K dps in the group game. They left out the fact that all mobs would have to live 1-2 minutes long in the group game, the necro has to have full adps, the mobs couldn't have any gimmicks preventing the use of pets or certain dot types or other mechanics that interrupt stacking x amount of dots on, that a necro would need raid focus, the necro would need rank 3 spells from the past few expansions, the necro would have to be max offensive aa and have a bunch of required class clicks and items. But yes necros in general - meaning the top 30 raid necros in game with full support on group mob durations that don't exist is the same thing as the comment necros in general - meaning what all necros magically can do under hypothetical situations regardless of gear, aa, spells, support and not realistic fight lengths. An agenda is an agenda m i right?
I never mentionned necros personnally so plz avoid amalgams next time thx. And effectively generalizing with specific parses and shortcuts is bad.
My assassinate does no damage in the group game, because I've stopped playing it. There's nothing worthwhile enough or interesting enough for me to bother logging in for when we aren't having raids. So that leaves, Kael, Evantil, and a handful of mobs in Xorbb 3 for me to assassinate, awesome! So power! Mills, it was a troll attempt. It didn't show the total amount of engaged time, it didn't show the number of assassinates, all it showed were a few fights with a few procs and then all the rest of the normal ones. With knifeplay running it has an *ok* proc rate, other than that, it sucks. It is NOT worth 200+ AA. But keep on thinking it's a great ability, I love being able to do a big crit on 10% or less of the game's mobs, don't you?
No one said it was some great ability now. The thread started with questions on how it worked and then turned into a back and forth about when it was more useful as a farming tool in older zones against lb cons or under mobs verse now it being sustained tool against certain mob types - be it trash on raids or mobs in the group game. Necros somehow got brought into this to further an agenda thats going on 4+ years by some people based on fictional comparisons. One rogue said look this is what i did - i don't care if its real, fake or needs further explanation he posted his data in regards to it being a boost to sustained and others disagreed. So then another rogue or two with the agenda then say well so what if it does in fact boost our sustained in some settings necros can do this instead with for sure made up data based on the discussion. So I called them out by posting. Comparing what may or may not be happening for rogues in the group sustained game applies to what the agenda people may or may not be seeing from top 30 ranked necros in a raid setting on raid mobs in a sustained setting how? Again they got called out for it.
If was quite a bit of exaggeration and tongue in cheek, but not THAT much ;-) A whole bunch of fights averaging 45-50k I guess - nice dps, but cherry picked for optimal case for rogues (blue con humanoids) and it's not a million miles off what we'd see raid geared nukers doing either. For every fight to be looking that good I'm suspicious too that these have been picked as the best examples out of a lot larger corpus. The 2 proc/min rate means with 30sec parses you're going to get loads of fights with no procs at all. In short, give us duff data and we can twist it around too ;P
Well, it's all dependent on a lot of things. Here are my own parses. This is EVERY fight I've done in RoT (it's not many as you'll see). No cherry picking. A rockbreaker in 57s, 2181k @38269 --- Brogett 2181k@(38269 in 57s) One non-crit assassination. A tower scion in 56s, 1830k @29994 --- Brogett 1830k@(32672 in 56s) No assasinations, I died. A tomb raider in 75s, 2023k @26968 --- Brogett 2023k@(26968 in 75s) 2 assassinations (1+1crit). A tower scion in 48s, 781k @15629 --- Brogett 781k@(16281 in 48s) No assassinations, I died. Yep there you have it. My experiences in RoT. (I tried forming a group several times, but no one was interested in guild or those in zone, and none of LFG list.) They were of course using various discs too, trying to get things down asap before I die. This wouldn't be my sustained dps. Some were raid buffed, some (after deaths) were self buffed. All with top raid gear, just me and the merc! So yeah, that was molo, and I totally failed to get anything done (hardly suprising). Do I feel overpowered? Lol NO! Is this a particularly useful set of parses and representative of what a rogue can do? No, I didn;t have any support whatsoever, and frontal dps is never going to be good. So yeah it's a rubbish parse, but the conditions are there for all to see. Clearly I ought to be going in with a proper tank and healer as support, as that's what rogues need. Is it unfair therefore to compare myself in these conditions to casters with support too? Clearly not. See this is the problem with parse data. Just throw a few values out there with zero info and it's meaningless. Give the context!
None of that has anything to do with Current Assassination being useful. Rogues could never solo current content I have no idea why you are even bringing it up. It has no bearing on this discussion. I'm supposed to be sorry you can't solo current content? What does assassination have to do with that? If this is the way you always act then it's no surprise you couldn't find a group. Ah only the ~The Mighty Savoir of Rogues Brogett~ gets to relish his posts with sarcasm and hyperbole. If any of us lowly peasants does so we are automatically "trolls" and "trying to annoy" You sidelined the discussion with classes I never brought up. You moved the goal posts talking about the parses being cherry-picked or not relevant. I'm telling you the situations in which Current Assassination is useful and none of the arguments you have brought have done anything to counter that.
I never said it wasn't useful, and arguably it has more use now than it did as a light blue "trick". Assassination definitely has a use in a few specific places - always did and always will. It's not exactly game changing given the rarity of being able to use it, but it's nice enough when it works. However I objected to "Now rogues can plow through current content mobs, and bring a lot of DPS to the table with this "nerfed" assassination, it's absolutely DREADFUL" (obvious sarcasm). You have a right to your opinion, and I to mine. I guess we'll just have to disagree on what "plow through current content mobs" really means. As for the parse, I *said* it wasn't particularly useful. I wasn't trying to say it was, but I did it to prove a point; parses don't need much without the appropriate context. If I didn't give any context it would have been totally biased and incorrect to show my data as if it was representative, so I listed my group makeup, explained which has assassinations and which didn't, explained my gear and approx buffs, stated clearly that it was all fights and not just a few cherry picked ones, and most importantly stated that it was a pretty poor example of a parse. Yet I still don't know anything about your parses. Was it all fights you did or just some of them? Did they all have assassinations? Did you have shaman/bard support, or just the rogues? Any other dps classes? What gear do they use?
So Wiji, you don't like it when he returns the favor you did by posting your parse? Assassinate isn't even a particularly fun gimmick, although you're right, it's entirely a gimmick. It's sure as hell not worth 200+ AA(which is what it costs to use on level 99 mobs). It becomes slightly useful if you have 3 rogues in group, but then again... you have 3 rogues in group. I assume by "a bit more dps" to the table you mean 9k, because 2 procs per minute boils down to 9k dps, on a fractional amount of mobs that qualify as humanoid. And you're right, some of us are angry. It used to be a semi useful ability that means we could go to 4 expansion old content, and molo out some AAs. Now? It's a stupid gimmick that isn't even good for that. Totally right, we should be cool with blowing 200 AA on junk.
Casters are not doing 45-50k on average trash fights by any stretch. We're in the mid 20s to mid 30s. And at a rate of 2 proc/min even with 30s fights it means -most- fights should have at least 1 proc, provided it meets the requirements.
I think you'll get different answer from different rogues depending on how useful the old assassinate was to them. For me personally, I found killing light blues or swarming/counterattacking to be so boring that I never really took advantage of it. I'm just wondering whether it was even possible for them to have retained the old assassinate and just added the new one. Proc more if it's light blue, proc less if it's dark blue.
Except in a normal group fights dont last 30sec and moloing we are from the front and our proc rate is not even 1/min. About casters DPS my wiz does more than 20-30k sustained without any raid gear (unless you dont consider using discs etc...) oh and without any support. Actually wiz merc is doing more than 20k already.
In a normal group current mobs last about 30 seconds or less. Your caster does not do more than 30k sustained in a group unless hitting long reuse abilities, and no one was talking about doing that. If we were, then rogues do a lot more than 30k if they hit all their abilities too. I don't know why you are bringing up mercs at all since no one is talking about them and they are completely unrelated to what any player class can do.
Unfortunately this is too true! As for the rest of it, I think it depends on the caster mentality Beimeith. I see wiz that regularly do more than 30k, but they also need med breaks and churn through mana (as rogs do with endurance too). Others take it slow and gentle to avoid that. Fact is they CAN do more dps, just as a rogue CAN too, but we don't actually know what skills the rog was using as *still* there is absolute zilch on how this data was obtained despite asking for it. We don't even know if it included a bard, or a shaman. (Probably not, but it's an important factor.) In short, the parse is worthless. We don't even know how much of the damage was due to assassination, which was the whole point of this thread.
Actually, the whole point of this thread was explaining the difference between assassination and our daggerthrust line of discs. =\ It got sidetracked pretty early on.
Judging any of us raid geared rogues vs mercs is dumb anyway. The sad part is the group geared rogue can't keep up with mercs.
These threads do make me wonder what I'm doing wrong. Group geared level 100 rogue with COTF T1/T2 gear (the T2 weapons + augs), all dps AA (7800 total) and I average only 12-14k sustained with enc haste on dark blue/black group content (think I saw someone mention they're getting well above that with only using auto attack + bs). Peaks are low 20s, lows are 8kish (usually when I get distracted). Frenzied can get me low 30s on a mob. I can get some 60-70k spikes when assassinate goes off. I am cycling through most of the AAs and discs that I see mentioned in these threads. Also do keep arc consistently.and rarely miss a bs when it refreshes. From what I can tell, there's a huge gap between group and raid weapons and maybe RII and RIII discs.
