If you have 14 healers on 1 defensive tank and the tank is dying, then you may want to find yourself a few people that can actually play a healer class, and a tank that is actually geared to tank the content.
The game is probably coming up a bit short on those. As a solution, what you are saying Warpiggs is the easiest to say and one of the hardest to implement. Many mid tier guilds don't even get applicants, let alone the ones that they need. For us it is going to take a focus on lvl 100 and getting those AA before we can call NToV home. No recruitment initiative is going to bring a silver bullet.
Start simple. Remind healers to spam heals constantly, not to wait for the tank to "need" it. Healers in other groups when not healing their own group, should also be spamming the MT. Raid Healing 101. If you run a parse, look for spells cast, not heal amount, as an indicater of who is slacking and who is not. Do not assume anyone knows how to play their toons, remind them of the most basic stuff. That goes for all classes. Amazing what some people honestly do not know or are doing wrong. See those 2 problems constantly on PU/Open raids.
I think just getting more tanks and healers in the game is the 101 part. If they show up they can learn but there are probably 50 dps classes rolled for every 1 tank or 1 cleric that decides to stick with those classes as a main to raid with. I posted elsewhere that raids are still designed around abundant tanking and healing but it is just not as common as we would all like or the devs would believe.
warpiggs is jsut being warpiggs cause he hates my guild. our healers are all healing and the tank i was referring to is geared just fine, and if you know me you know i'd never say taht if it wasn't true, im about tank gearing. The point is taht it's not geared for the stated target audience it's geared beyond it. plain and simple. Considering the fast it took you 3 weeks to clear any event whatsoever in the expac and not a singel one was progression (i find that odd but to each his own) and you'd been farming t4 voa for what 7 months? (not the entire tier, i know, not the point as the gear was still available) and you're hopping on the boat that the tank sucks or is badly geared and the healers suck because a guild that never even SAW t4 cant keep a tank up long enough? then again we've only gone once and it was just overwhelmingly high dps on teh tanks that it wasnt worth going back . the sad thing is we will be farming t1 raids in order to do teh t0 raids, while people like warpiggs here who has cleared sep (though only recently was it "cleared" as opposed to jsut mostly on farm) sit there and trash talk having not beaten even 1 progression raid, jsut to get that precious half a tier of upgrades isntead of burning through to t2 like they shoudl be able to. when discussing the tuning of ToV, if you farmed t4 voa events before rof launched, you ahve no room to comment on its tuning being too easy because it wasnt aimed at you, it was aimed at those taht DIDNT.
I guess if I was still in Descendents some of the stuff you said may be true. But I have not been in that guild for quite some time. I know that may be hard to understand since I have been in 3 guilds in the past 13 years. I do not hate your guild, I was in Dark Bane for about 6 years. I just don't care for you that much. So before you start throwing around your accusations, please be informed before you start.
The difference is one guild is able to beat Resplendent Temple and one isn't, even when both guilds have the exact same gear level. T3 VoA is a very odd tier of raids in that each raid in that tier has a entirely different level of difficulty. Beast is the easy raid Resplendent Temple is the medium raid and Rubak is the T3 raid that is harder then almost all raids above it in VoA and RoF.
actually you have trashtalked db ever since you destroyed their website years ago, and trashtalked them to me while we were playing TOGETHER, you and i never hd an issue wahtsoever until i got sick of your trashtalking the guild. back to the topic, ToV isnt an emote-fest, it's a gear-fest, and aside from hatemasks (which don't effect survivability just aggro) there's nothing gained for tanks in RT over BD for gear. RT has some hard-hitting mobs as others have noted, i guess, i didnt particularly think the mobs any more difficult to TANK and rubak even easier, to TANK. so yo ucant sit here and blame the tanks bc a guild didnt complete rt or rubak when teh TANKING is the same or easier and in ToV tanking is about living not jumping on one foot reciding the declaration of independance bakwards whilst writing out pi to the 30th decimal with both hands. The dps of aaronyar is simply overtuned as a lastminute afterthought as has been noted instead of tuning up the other effects and leavign the melee alone in the final week of tuning.
Well, as an update... we did it yay Cn got thru aary. Was it easy heck no lol we had our best turnout no alts except a healer that we asked for over a main. So to other guilds trying all i can offer is... We made our pally's healers no dps stand with the clerics target mt and heal. Made all casters of course stand facing away melee out of dmg as much as you can. If you can spare a healer for a dps group so they can get close enough for there special attacks it would be a bonus you dont do near as much at max melee. And prayer a lil prayer helps
No he wasn't saying that because he hates you, your point was ridiculous. As a ranger I can pop off at minimum I would say an average of 20k heals with my spam heal. 14 rangers could keep up a raid tank, heck you'd probably be fine with 6 of us. 14 priests? Do you know what kind of a healing advantage they have over hybrids? They can top a raid tank in one hit, maybe 2. And you say 14 of them couldn't keep a raid tank alive? What happens is either a tank dies in 1 round, or a round and an AE, or they live. If they live and there is a few seconds of breathing room the healers can top them up. If you have 14 and your tanks are not dying instantly then the healers are playing poorly. Is it mean to say this? Perhaps, but it's the truth. They can ask how to play their classes or your guild can be stuck on easy content you should be able to do. Take your pick. Oh and I would assume that you don't actually have 14 healers on the tank. A lot of healers suck at healing out of group, there is no really easy way to do this other than setting up priority targets on your extended target window.
take note of your own "ifs". IF theyren ot 1rounded by a bad combat round IF theyre not flurried on for max hits at same time as an ae, IF you can avoid having bad spikes, sure it's fine. but the spikes on this event are overtuned. thats exactly what im saying, doesnt matter how many healers you ahve on your tank if the event is overtuned so taht it can 1round a defensive tank in t3.5 voa and this is supposed to be geared for guilds IN t3 voa. as to whether all 14 were healing the tank al lthe time i cant say that, jstu that there were at least 14 priests on, probably more, and that theyre all required to keep all tanks in the raid on their etw at all times. again, the point is that the SPIKES are too big for what this event is supposed to be geared to. maybe if you're in full t4+voa (as in you have al lt4 voa plus wahtevery ou scrounged up in tofs, we go very few tank usables from tofs and those that dropped didnt go to wars) and in many cases more than that since many are doing progression first, thus even better gear. I dont blame anyone for doing progressio nraids first, theyre easier and the loot from them is needed to break past the 1rounded threshhold here, but one shouldnt NEED to do t1 content to be able ot tank t0 content, one shoudlnt needto be full t4 voa for an event aimed to be t3.5 note: 34guilds have beaten all but the final t4 raid in VoA, yet this raid thats geared for guilds NOT farming any part of t4 has only 32 guilds having beaten the first mob, though once the first mob is beaten the next 3 are pretty much a given. The point is that ToV is not tuned for its target audience, taht it requires lot more gear than t1 rof does even if it requires little to no skill, and thus it's missing its mark entirely and again opens up with a bottleneck raid. It's not required for the expac, at least not initially (though some gear is best in class overall) but it completely misses the mark for its target audience due to the dps output of the opening event. Granted, the opening event in this zone originally was the same deal, but jsut tweaking his melee down a little bit would solve all kinda of issues. If a good tank in your target audience is 1rounded, frequnetly, there's a problem with the max hit. simple as that.
/sigh Listen, if a tank gets one rounded there is nothing anything can do about it and mentioning the amount of healers you have has pointless. This is grade school, entry level MMO common sense here. Does it hit too hard? Perhaps, I would guess that the AE from failed emotes combined with the hard hits are what's doing in most people though.
thats the entire point lol. that it hits too hard. i only states the number of healers in response to the guy talkign about the raid being too hard if you're short healers, it doesnt matter how many healers you ahve if you're in teh target audiene the mob hits too hard. period. and you tryignot blame the healers or them tryign ot blame the tnaks, is total utter bs
I'd like to take a moment to point out that there is currently no bonus points for finishing your posts as quickly as possible.
You have to heal different in NToV and you have to Tank different in NToV. This is not a gear check issue its a tactics issue. First you need to admit you need to improve your way of doing things for these events and then you need to make the improvements. If you just say it hits to hard and then just give up before you make those changes then off course you will fail.
no one said anythign about giving up just takigna better route. "heal different and tank different"? so...what, follow the latest trend of usinga pet to tank and have pallies heal instead? stop talkign down to people in the thread taht are bringing up a legitimate point. the mob hits far far harder than t1 rof does. this is supposedto be below t1 rof not above it. point. set. match.
It sounds like it is not the melee damage output of Aary that is wiping you, as you mentioned "AE hitting at same time as a combat round". There is no AE unless some one fails the emote twice. Once by not looking away, one again by not running away from other players after they get the second emote. If some one fails to look away and fails to run away after they fail to look away, then you take an enormous AE. You cannot survive emote fails for long. It sounds like that is what the issue is.
My guild has beaten Arry three times so far but we haven't beaten shards landing raid yet. Though we got through his eight add spawn wave on our last attempt at shards before we slowed raiding to a crawl for holidays. We also took time off at start of expansion so we have only had about two weeks worth of raiding sense RoF was released So your theory that NToV is harder then T1 RoF doesn't seem to hold.
(And to add our guild status) We're working on Sepulcher 3 (beat pillars just before Halloween for timing). Working on Shard's Landing (can't seem to get past 50% add spawns yet) Have 6 of the 13 NToV dragons down (Aary + 1 other killed 3x, 4 more we got 1st kills on last night). No clue where that puts us. Aary definitely goes back to the older style of healing/tanking.
Some of them definitely do hit harder than they should at the tier. That said - while several of the dragons do hit inordinately hard, several of them are very manageable at the appropriate gear level in a pure tank and spank setup. I check the EGL progression stuff daily to see what's happening around the servers, in past homes, etc. I've noticed a few guilds skip past Aary, returning later to get that kill. There is still one guild that has pushed past, but not killed Aary, if their updating is accurate. If some of the dragons are hitting too hard for your setup, try others. I understand that's not really a true solution to the issue, but it keeps things moving and may keep kills coming. Guilds with fresh kills get better participation and the tanks can gear up fairly quickly in T1 quality loot. If you are a purist and insist on getting the kills in order, I understand that motivation as well. None of the dragons have a ton of health. My experience with the middle tiers tended to show an excess amount of knights and rangers. Get creative with your strategies, there's surely ways to get past the event. Essentially, what you're looking at is an earlier version of what's happening in Tier 2 for the high end right now. The log jam at Xorbb1 has seen guilds stuck on the fight for weeks (approaching a month, for some) - guilds that raid 5 or 6 times a week. People are getting past it, though, persistence is key. Good luck, I do wish they had NToV a little more accessible for you folks (and I'm guessing it will see tuning in areas to get there... someday).
