Roadblocks to class specific weapon?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by CaptAmazing, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. Rogue Augur

    If that's true, then how come every single strat mentioned so far has involved a pet tanking
  2. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Are you sure? I don't see where the poster named Whatever suggested a pet tank. For me it reads "In the meanwhile, tank Xaric or kite him. Here you'll need a sturdy tank." Doesn't mention pet tanking anywhere in the post. Or even using pets at all. Maybe you were talking about a different mission? I understood you to be talking about HoF2, but clearly that can't be the case.
  3. BoomWalker Augur

    All merc/partison/missions done.

    Champion done 17 Dec 2012.
    Paragon (Fearspeaker) done 14 Feb 2013.

    Beat CR on 30 Apr 2013.
    Beat PoS on 1 May 2013.
    Beat HoF on 20 Jul 2013.

    RL friend of mine has completed all of these same things...with all group geared toons.

    Repeating the 2's missions? Sure...any of them...

    Does raid gear help? For a tank...yes...for a healer...not as much. DPS...depends on the DPS class and player behind that class. Still...you can get all the augs for a tank without raid gear...and be pretty tough.

    The classic example of this is a group geared SK moloing a named in MC in HoT expansion when it was the current expansion...molo'd a named...with group gear...but had all the AC augs and hdex/hagi/etc. that tanks wanted...and the appropriate AAs. Watched this personally. Was impressed with the badass SK in group gear.

    Just because one SK with group gear can molo a named in MC doesn't mean that all SK group geared tanks are equal. And yes...having raid gear would have helped...but that SK was pure group geared and very tough as a tank.

    It is possible...it isn't a requirement to have raid gear...it helps...sometimes a lot...but not necessary.

    But that doesn't mean you will ever beat them all. It is possible...with group gear...but you do need the proper group makeup.
  4. BoomWalker Augur

    Are you sure your not in my guild? Sounds like some of those that want everyone to drop what they are doing and do the missions for them with a TA while they sit in the GL sucking up buffs.

    Those you list are not easy...and why is BG2, CR2, and Xorbb 2 (The Return of King Xorbb) not on this list?

    It takes a good group makeup to beat those missions. Some people like using mez...others bring DPS...while others just tank through them. Different methods to the same goal.
  5. Falos Augur


    Pets do have an advantage in tanking SOME content but i can say from first hand experience as a mage that has completed all the content...


    Mage pet tanks are a detriment (compared to using a war/sk/paladin tank) for the following missions:

    phase 1 of evantil 2, chelsith mission 2, chapterhous mission 2, and HoF mission 2 (using a pet tank to pull laround the mob into each of the auras is doable, and i've done it but its something that would definetly be easier to do with a real tank)

    Mage pets DO give a decent advantage though for fights like eastern wastes misison 2 and plane of shadows mission 2
  6. Bigstomp Augur


    Many involve pet tanking because having a mage/necro/bst along who's pet can handle a minor tank role means you can add another dedicated tank/dps/healer.

    I've done all the missions with and without pet classes. You look at your group, look at the mission and come up with a plan. Depending on your group makeup that may involve pet tanking or not pet tanking. It may involve the tank tanking a few at once and extra healing. It may involve a mezzer or rooter locking everything down.

    The only real difference between modern missions and older missions is you have to think a little.
  7. gcubed Augur

    And the proper group makeup, for people in group gear, to beat all the missions would be?
  8. Denial_Sinfae Augur

    It is different per mission. You don't eat all food with a fork. You don't beat all missions with a shaman + DPS.

    Look at what the mission entails, figure out who can fill the need. Fill the need.
    BoomWalker likes this.
  9. gcubed Augur

    And that is what is wrong with the these missions. You can't take a balanced group and run them through the missions.
  10. BoomWalker Augur

    CH2

    - 100 level mage with Enhanced Minion XIII and all RK II spells, 9.2k AAs, and a minimum of 72k mana, 72k hps. (with tribute and powersource)
    - 100 level SK with all T2 RoF group gear and all AC augs from VoA and below and 9.4k AAs, and a minimum of 9.2k AC (with tribute and powersource) (no idea on what an SK has for hit points or mana sorry)
    - 100 level cleric with 9k AAs, a minimum of 72k mana, 72k hps (with tribute and powersource) and all RK II spells.
    - 100 level BST with Enhanced Minion XIII and all RK II spells, 8k AAs, and a minimum of 72k mana, 72k hps. (with tribute and powersource)
    - 100 level druid with 9.2k AAs, a minimum of 72k mana, 72k hps (with tribute and powersource) and all RK II spells.
    - 100 level wizzy with 9.2k AAs, a minimum of 72k mana, 72k hps (with tribute and powersource) and all RK II spells.

    There...happy? Probably not...

    While giving a detailed list of the toons needed to beat the missions would seem a great thing...when that group fails to beat the mission because the players behind the toons are morons...the complaint will be that the group makeup was not good enough and they need raid gear to beat the event.

    The other missions...will come later...just beat CH2 first...
  11. gcubed Augur

    Don't bother with the other missions, since I won't be beating CH2 with that group makeup. (Strange as it may seem my class is not represented in that list. As a matter of fact, my group only has one of the listed classes.)
  12. Biltene Kingslayer

    CH2 imo, is actually one of the more flexible in being able to beat it since at least one of your members is going to have to shroud, so at least one class can be any class whatsoever. CH2 requires the following:

    A tank
    A healer
    A DPSer
    A shrouder

    That is all. It's not much different from most other missions or group requirements to kill named. Since you will have to tank 2 mobs at the same time (Marnek and a skeleton), it is nice to have a secondary toon that can fill that role. So, for the last 2 spots, I would suggest either another tank class, or a BST/Mage, or if your primary tank is beefy enough, perhaps having a secondary healer would be best for some flexibility. So, assuming you have at least the roles of 1 tank, 1 healer (should note, due to the f/x used in the mission, healer should be real toons, not mercs if at all avoidable). and one DPSer, the other three roles could be filled with the various setups:

    Secondary tank, DPSer, shrouder (any class)
    Secondary tank (again this could mean any tank class, a mage, a BL, a stout monk), Secondary healer, shrouder
    Secondary Healer, DPSer, shrouder
    DPSerX2, shrouder (If your tank and healer are particularly well played.)

    If I were to pick my super ideal group for this I would say:

    SK tank for named
    Paladin tank for skellies and support heals
    Cleric
    Wizard
    Monk or Rogue
    Anything...Shaman would work, or BL for slows..or chanter....it really could be just about anything
  13. BoomWalker Augur

    Well I would offer to use my typical group but we are raid geared and that is not allowed. But my typical group has the same toons/classes and we beat all the missions. A lot of the missions I just box...but the ones that need more toons...the group is normally the same toons.

    But instead of being snobby and not letting others join us on missions...we let others join us to help them complete the missions if they don't have a group at the time they are looking to do the mission.

    Still...there are toons we look for to join on missions needing more than a boxed group...those toons are played by players that have proven to not be what we call "idiots" and know how to work in a group.

    We will drop some toons from the group so others can come run the mission with us if they haven't beat it...so the group makeup changes on any run based on the group need. We beat all missions with a known setup...but are capable enough to be able to beat it with different classes as well.

    Most missions there is zero mezzing in the group make up...but if a mission can be beat easier with a mezzer we will certainly seek one out to make it a faster and easier mission.

    We are a group willing to change the makeup to beat a mission...or to help others beat missions. This should not be a strange concept.
  14. BoomWalker Augur

    Well you can swap out the BST for your class and you be shrouder. Unless that is the only class in your group.

    I did as you asked...not happy still...shocking...shrug...
  15. hakmer Augur


    when i want a challenge, i eat my soup with a fork.
  16. hakmer Augur

    -------------------------------

    25 missions and pets are a detriment on 3 1/2 ... and actually 2 1/2 as hof2 isn't really a detriment just inconvenient.
  17. BoomWalker Augur

    I am so hardcore I always eat my soup with a fork...for a challenge I eat soup with Pringles!!!
  18. Mykaylla Augur

    And whilst we were raid geared, I've done that with three toons, and me the only healer, while doing all three achievements (which makes it harder than just winning). My gear is neither current nor auged for mana, so it's fairly comparable to a top group geared toon in that department.
  19. gcubed Augur

    Look, I am not saying that raid gear is not allowed. Raid gear allows you to be more flexible in your approach to these missions. It is just that single groupers as a rule do not have access to anything close to current raid gear. These missions are part of the group game. They reward group gear. Yes, there is a couple of tie ins to the raid game, but they are primarily group content and raid gear SHOULD be irrelevant.

    I should add that it is nice that you are helping others.

    What I am saying is that these missions are set up where Mission A requires a melee centric group, Mission B requires a caster centric group, Mission C requires a tank heavy group, Mission D requires a DPS centric group, Missions E and F each require a different class ability that only one or two classes can supply.

    None of these missions are impossible for single groupers but as a whole they are impossible for most established groups of single groupers. Group missions will remain impossible until one of two things happens: The Devs need to expand the maximum group size to nine so a group can meet the requirements for all the missions, OR they need to start talking to each other about the group requirements each mission has.
    CaptAmazing likes this.
  20. CaptAmazing Augur

    Thank you. There in lies the problem. Ousting people for a preferred class. Really, though, the reason are greater than people just sucking. Getting people together of the right mix and at the right time for these is problematic.

    Someone mentioned why Xorbb wasn't on my list. Simple I got invited to a raid groups run at them. They were changing out their needs as they went and had access to every class. It went like a hot knife through butter.