Riposte is out of control

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Maedhros, Feb 27, 2023.

  1. Wulfhere Augur

    Yes. It appears that the only defensive check failure that is not muted is for riposte. We never see e.g. (parry strikethrough) tags right? Parry, dodge, block, shield/staff block strikethrough failures, these are all muted from the log. It's inconsistent for riposte to be the only one left.

    I think we should see all the failure-due-to strikethrough messages personally, but the intent might be better to mute this last remaining one and reduce confusion.

    For example, here are two strikethroughs that are not preceded by a defensive failure, so we assume it was because of one that's muted. I.e. our parry or dodge failure isn't indicated at all.

    [Fri Jan 13 10:48:28 2023] A haunted Ry`Gorr slashes YOU for 7891 points of damage. (Strikethrough)
    [Fri Jan 13 10:48:28 2023] A haunted Ry`Gorr slashes YOU for 5303 points of damage. (Strikethrough)

    What would be less confusing is to include the missing defensive tag, e.g.

    [Fri Jan 13 10:48:28 2023] A haunted Ry`Gorr slashes YOU for 7891 points of damage. (Dodge Strikethrough)
    [Fri Jan 13 10:48:28 2023] A haunted Ry`Gorr slashes YOU for 5303 points of damage. (Parry Strikethrough)

    I didn't see you initiate any swings (i.e. /attack off) so I assumed it must be from a mash button.
  2. Riou EQResource

    Should be Battlefield Vengeance AA that can make your Ripostes also do a special attack (Bash for Knights)
    Ozon likes this.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    Sure but this was an isolated line in the log and without a riposte tag. So I believe it wasn't that.
  4. Maedhros High King

    Well I tanked the entire Shiknar raid Friday night with snowcone but I can't come up with any kind of useful conclusion with the log data.
    I "felt" like I was taking significantly less damage, and the spikes from a ton of ripostes coming all at once were completely eliminated but I ended up tanking more mobs and for longer periods because of other tank deaths so I don't see anything in my logs that is helpful.
    There were no ripostes at all, but that was to be expected.
    I guess I would need to just pull 1 mob somewhere and tank it for a preset amount of time with sword and board, and then repeat with snowcone to get any useful data.
  5. Maedhros High King

    I don't recall anyone ever saying they couldn't tank with a weapon.
    You are inserting commentary that never happened.
    I could delete my snowcone tomorrow and tank just fine for the next 20 years but that isnt the point.

    I have noticed a startling increase to the frequency of ripostes this year that was never something that seemed to be noteworthy in the past.
    This post is about trying to figure out if others are also seeing it.

    There are tons of mobs in the raid game that we don't ever need to kill, just off tank.
    So if I can bandolier in the snowcone and take significantly less damage, then I would be stupid not to consider it.
    Any tank would be.
    SK epic aside.

    More importantly, I think its possible that there could be a decimal point off somewhere and if in the process of people talking about this we find that ripostes are happening more frequently than they should be, then it was worth the discussion.
  6. Allayna Augur

    Ya, I'm saying the opposite, I can tank 6-8 mobs routinely with sword and board in NoS vs only maybe 3 mobs with the snowcone. I'm refuting your point, since this is a discussion and all. Riposte and strikethrough has been this way since the nerf in GMM.
  7. Waitwhat Elder

    This a bug? Should be in the bug forum?
  8. Maedhros High King

    Are, are you talking about the group game? If you're talking about tanking 6-8 mobs in the raid game, then I wonder what the hell your other tanks are doing.
    There are only a few raids that even have 6-8 mobs at a time. Is RA just rocking 1 warrior to tank the boss and then Aallayna to tank all the rest of the things? Cause I'm calling BS here.
    If by "routinely" you actually mean "very rarely" when a bunch of other tanks die, then no kidding. Everyone does that once in a while. Its called Glyph of the Dragon Scales and excellent incoming heals.
    This has nothing to do with Aallayna's skill, your hdex augs, and your never-ending access to SK epics, from SKs that apparently don't actually tank, they just provide epic clicks for Aallayna.
    I honestly couldn't care less about your disinterest in using the snowcone.
    Aallayna is the best guys, they never use the snowcone.
    See? Nobody cares.
  9. Allayna Augur

    Pretty petty and snarky retort for someone challenging what you say as gospel. Or is it high king? Maybe it is god…

    RA has tanks who tank, we just don’t slow play the bosses…. Bring on the % based waves of adds, more to dps at the same time. Yes, routinely. The rarity would be tanking one, not because we don’t have tanks or because all praise Allayna (think you projected tbh)… because we push for more adds.

    We don’t have endless SKs for epics…but snowcone negates it. SK epic certainly helps bridge the disc gap.

    Does the riposte nerf suck, yes, has it been this way for years now, also yes, was it needed to stop out of whack gameplay, also yes.
  10. Battledoom New Member

    Does this qualify as inserting commentary that never happened or am i misreading it?
    Jack and Allayna like this.
  11. Ozon Augur

    On Saturday we ran a total of 8 tanks for all 9 events, 3 War, 3 SK, 2 Pally, minus T3, we really don't pay attention to tank assignments other than bosses. The reason being we (tanks) are expected to do our job. Will Aallayna pick up multiple mobs yes, frequently. And then a tank without a mob will pull off of them. Is Aallayna the only one who does this, no. The expectation for RA tanks is for any of us to tanks whatever is needed whenever period.

    The SKs do not follow Aallayna around like little lost puppies, we have other concers, such as well tanking our own mobs, picking up loose mobs if someone dies, DPS, doing our jobs.

    Not sure what your issue is with how we do our job in RA, or with Aallayna or SKs in general, but if you are going to make accusations at least do make them based in reality.

    Jack and Allayna like this.
  12. Maedhros High King

    Guys if you think RA has had some kind of ground breaking discovery on how to tank mobs on raids and that every other guild is not doing the same thing then I have some bad news for you.
    I know RA has good tanks, they wouldnt have had the success they have had other the years if they didnt.
    But Aallayna has been crapping all over my posts and so I respond.
    If you would show a little bit of reading comprehension, I am calling Aallaynas statements out because I am sure that the other tanks in RA are not standing around doing nothing while Aallayna just tanks all the things with free SK epic clicks.
    Thanks for the response though, because it proves my point that Aallaynas claims have no merit.
  13. TsiawdMS TittyGOAT

    sk epic and let the beastlords tank!
    Lynxrob likes this.
  14. Meckwell Reckless Ascension Recruiter

    You spelt great wrong.
    Jack and Allayna like this.
  15. Emilari UI Designer

    As one of RA's clerics... when you have excellent tanks, and excellent clerics that work synergistically, it's possible for our tanks to be tanking multiples regularly. Allayna and Ozon aren't lying when they claim to tank 8 mobs at a time... they do, as do the rest of our tanks.

    DPS groups have ADPS... tank groups have A-Mitigation - same concept, different purpose. It's been my experience in several guilds that many tanks and clerics either don't understand, or don't bother to learn how to work as harmoniously as they could be, which limits what they can handle.

    I'd prefer to see this topic get back on-topic though... I was enjoying reading the riposte conversation and EQ Math.
    Jack, Wulfhere, Lluianae and 2 others like this.
  16. Ozon Augur

    They do on occasion, mainly to frustrate the tanks I think!

    /glare Lynxrob
    Allayna and Lynxrob like this.
  17. Maedhros High King

    Lets not get carried away.
  18. Maedhros High King

    Speaking of getting carried away.
    Have you ever watched a Twitch from any of the other top 10 guilds?
    Tanking is done pretty much the same in all those guilds.
    I don't refute that tanks occasionally tank 6-8 things, but thats only ever briefly because there are simply too many tanks and not enough mobs to be using words like "routinely" and "regularly".
    If your tanks are as great and excellent as you guys claim, then why the heck are they all claiming to be tanking so many mobs when this expansion doesn't have the mechanics and adds to support your boasts?
    Ozon mentioned you guys had 8 tanks the other day, if they are all tanking 6-8 things routinely, thats got to be weird to have 48 to 64 mobs running around all the time.
    See how silly this is?

    I think its irritating that it ever got off the main topic in the first place.
  19. Ozon Augur

    To be clear regularly or routinely in this case means once or twice an event for 10-30 seconds. I say this because 1, no trash mob should be living through an entire event, no way we have 48-64 trash mobs around that long. That many mobs total during although possible seems like something a raid would have to work at.

    I am not, Aallayna, Meckwell, all are other tanks are not trying to tank 6-8 mobs through an entire event. Frankly that would be dumb, also our DPS won't let us get away with that. They love to AE mobs a cluster of 6-8 would be an unresitiable target. See how silly it is to think we keep random trash up?

    Tanking is done similarly across the boad, because this is the most effective and efficient way thus far. If someone comes up with a better tactic that will become the norm.

    And generally 1-2 tanks on boss, the rest of us on adds, or cures, or whatever we are meeded for. We do have tanking assignments, but those usually last until engage, then its if a mob is loose grab it, if another tank calls out for an assist you assist. If you are light on mobs or free and boss tank goes down, you grab boss. Same with calls from DPS or healers.

    I find our healers to be amazing, but they are precognizent, so we do die at times. We don't always have 8 tanks ready to go, it happens.

    TLDR; On a regular basis we pop tons of mobs, and our tanks will regularly and routinely tank 6-8 mobs as long as they have to, or until another tank peels off them.
    Allayna likes this.
  20. Maedhros High King

    Yes you are absolutely right, thats what everyone does.
    I wouldn't describe popping shield flash and AEing a pile of mobs to keep them off of the squishier people while other tanks each peel some of the mobs off as "routinely tanking 6-8" mobs.
    Other than Pit fight if you burn Giplik or Hargil and off tank all the adds, there isn't really another raid this expansion that you can imagine any one tank having to actually tank 6-8 mobs for longer than a few seconds. Its just not a thing.