You have 130 "Casual Badass" raiders listed on magelo and another 70 that I assume are current raiders but admittedly I cant tell if a "badass oldtimer" is a retired status or maybe some kind of veteran status. But lets assume you have about 200 people at your disposal just based off magelo, and yes I understand that some of them can be MIA. What I cant understand is why I have 10 people (of classes that you list as closed) talking about recruitment spam from Shredclawz, many of whom have repeatedly declined and asked to no longer be spammed out. I get that a guild has to recruit, but its pretty hilarious with the spam. I will ask the question that probably most other guilds are curious of, exactly how many people are sitting out every night not getting a chance to raid because its overfull in ROV? Are you honest to prospective apps that there is very likely no room for them on raids in the prime crew and that they will be shunted off to your casual team? I feel bad for Arwyn, how the hell do you guys juggle this enormous bench? PS, so I dont have to go through and spam anyone, ROTE is at the same spot in progression as ROV and we dont have 200 people to compete with to get into raids.
I'd imagine their casual folks raid separately in open raids that a certain Drinal-Mage-Grobb-resident-that-shall-not-be-named is always "promoting" in other servers general chats? Probably 2 separate raid forces with some controlled intermingling.
The beauty of ROV it's a top 5 raid guild in all of EQ , also the very best family guild in all of EQ ... Many like to raid but cant do it full time this is where the causals are ,people with the skills to raid but cant do it full time ... I myself have never heard a complaint from anyone in ROV about this set up , people are told up front with how the guild works ....
So why are you recruiting more people if there are a ton of people already waiting around hoping to get in the raid?
Perhaps you should take it as a compliment that you "apparently" have so many highly sought after guildmates in RoTE Maedhros. In the real world, you can be wearing a wedding band/ring and that doesn't stop many people from "seeking" you out. Same for being employed at a company, if you're exceptional, that's definitely not going to stop others from playing the recruit game. Not sure why folks think it'd be different in a game if people in the real world aren't even afraid to function that way over more serious things. Focus on being the best guild/leader out there and no one is going to want to leave your guild. More people will also probably end up trying to recruit your members, so I'm not sure how wise a tactic it'd be to dedicate time in calling them out instead of just taking it as a compliment.
Casual Badasses are not raiders, and they join knowing there is no guarantee for a spot on the main DKP team. A majority have no interest in it anyway. They are allowed on open raids we have on Thursday and Friday (as is anyone), and if they have the playtime and skill for an open spot they are allowed to app to the main DKP team. However, many people do not want or have the time to raid and many casuals have not invested enough time in progressing and learning their character to meet the standards we set there. However, if there is a casual who is good fit, we always recruit from within first. I can't speak for any other classes because I don't pay attention to their bench rotations, but necros never bench. /shrug My sense is that certain classes bench more than others. These specifics are always discussed in length by the app's sponsor when they apply, so we're certainly not pulling a bait and switch on anyone. Also, I'm surprised Shred didn't post this, but RoV is the 4th guild to beat Kor-sha 1 (Beimeith hasn't updated the guild ranking site yet) and we're going to be working on downing Kor-sha 2. So by all means, if Shred is blowing you up and you're interested, come and join us.
I think it's more along the lines of these guys being one of the most aggressive mass recruiters out there. It's hard to take attention as a compliment when someone says no and then another guildmate of the same class gets the exact same tell a few minutes later. I know multiple guild mates who have received this kind of "attention" from these guys cross server without anything more than a magelo check as the basis of interest, which does seem a little odd given a 70+120 pool of people to work from. There's a fine line between recruiting and blatant attempts at poaching, and these guys just seem to take recruiting to 11, for better or worse, so some skepticism doesn't seem too out of place. Not to mention the Drinal general chat troll promoting them daily, though that one is likely not their fault unless they were foolish enough to tag said troll.
'Casual Badass' is not 100% about raiding, logging in and seeing 20 people during the day that aren't boxes is pretty nice even if those people never raid nothing stops you from grouping with them and getting stuff done. The person you spend time helping now could become a great raider for you or another guild in a year. Raising up the experience for everyone instead of just watching the server decay from isolation seems like a win win even if others think it is a waste of their time. Edit: It varies by class but not everyone is a 100% raider and to fill up 54 x 100%. 5400% raid attendance if your classes share is 300% of that 5400% you may need 3 or you may need 5 of your class to fill that 300% all the time. If it takes 3 of your class and all 5 log on at the same time that is more the following issues: your class leader over recruiting, member(s) vanishing long enough to trigger recruiting then showing back up, or some one over delivering saying they would be a 70% raider but when they show up 100% expecting to be in raid 100%...
I dont think I had ever heard of the phrase "bench rotation" but that sounds miserable. If its true that you guys are very honest with apps about the make up of your raids and the bench rotation and they still join, then thats all well and good, if mind boggling.
Congratulations on Kor-Sha 1! If whatever way you're running the guild continues to allow you to achieve things like that, and it is an achievement, keep on keepin' on. Good luck finishing up the remainder of the raids - I have no doubt you'll move through quickly. Cheers from Povar
What sounds miserable to me is demanding 54 players to maintain 100% RA. Players are not allowed to take vacations, spend extra time with family, get sick, go to their child's sports game, etc. Or in the event that people are sick, or have to take a day away... now your 54 raid roster can only have 42 show up that night for raids. While 42 could win every EOK raid, I would guess majority of EQ guilds would prefer to have 54 online. I am not saying your guild has those requirements. I am not in your guild. But I would have to ask if you have more than 54 raiders (say 60 just for the sake of illustration) and you have all 60 people show up... what do you do? You choose 54 at 8pm or whenever you start and then the other 6 are on the bench for the next three hours while everyone else raids? Do you take those 6 and switch out players every now and then out of fairness? If you do, guess what- that is "bench rotation". It is really sad for other people to go into other guild's recruitment threads with negativity and assumptions, especially when those assumptions are mostly lies. In the past on these boards I remembered you could report certain threads or posts, and they would be deleted. I would hope that, for the sake of Ring of Valor, that a moderator can come into this thread and basically delete the last dozen or so posts. Mine included...
I assure you based on the amount of in game mail and on these forums I got thanking me that someone finally spoke up about ROV's spam recruit tactics, there are quite a few people who are miffed off about it. Recruiting is fine, but repeatedly spamming the same people after they have already politely declined is basically harassment. What makes it worse is that the people are of classes that are listed here as CLOSED!! Why are you spamming people that have already declined of classes that you have listed as closed? Sounds like an attempt to undermine the stability of other competitive guilds, just saying. Is it possible to report the spam in game mail? How has this gone on so far for so long?
For most guilds, its just reality. Many guilds prefer to keep the numbers down to avoid forcing anyone to sit with a high frequency. I suppose its a matter of whether someone wants to sit at their computer and play, or do they mind sitting out so often that a phrase is created to handle the occurrence, "bench rotation". My guild does not have a minimum raid attendance percentage policy, although I suppose 50% is the unwritten rule unless something big in real life comes up that keeps a player out for a long time. This does mean that depending on the night, we may field 45 or we may field 60 players. When we dont have enough people, we have the opportunity to allow some people to bring in a boxed toon, and when we have too many I ask if anyone would like to take a break for the event with the promise that they will be invited in for the next event if there is one. With pretty careful recruiting it is not difficult to manage having the variation of low attendance to high attendance to be as narrow a margin as possible. It is not necessary to carry 30 extra people on the bench to still get events down. But if thats what people are willing to put up with then so be it. The big problem is simply the spam. If I send Shredclawz an in game mail asking him to stop, what does that achieve? He clearly has been ignoring people's replies in which they decline and ask him to stop with the spam. What is truly sad is that I have to post anything about this at all, with the hope that it will bring attention to the harassment people are getting in mine and many other guilds. Perhaps some of ROV's members will agree and put pressure on the leadership to stop with the unsavory recruitment tactics. Thats the hope anyways. Congrats on beating the KarZok and good luck with the rest of the expansion.
Sheex, if the recruiting spam is as bad as you say it changes my opinion a tad. I find it very hard to believe it is though. There was another guild recruitment thread along time ago where Maedhros was stating a guild and ex guildmates were poaching his members. I'm pretty sure that was Reckless Ascension he was claiming was doing so, a guild on the same server as RoV heh. Perhaps my memory doesn't serve correctly but I'm relatively sure that's the case. When a "raid" guild leadership runs a tight and nice ship correctly "poaching" doesn't exist and becomes a laughable term. Maedhros giving advice to a family/raid guild that is progressed further than his guild about how they conduct benches etc. sounds like extreme sour grapes IMO. Even if all this were 100% true, how hard is it to not respond to cross server tells or emails lol. Claiming harassment sounds like a very big reach....but keep "protecting" those guildmates from harm I guess. Grats on the T3 win RoV and progressing to 4th gamewide
A long time ago and Reckless Ascension are two things that don't go together. We are a relatively new raiding guild and you are wildly mistaken if you think we don't run a tight ship. We raid 3 nights a week MAX. 2 nights a week if there is a holiday, yet finished TBM 2 hours behind RoV. You don't have to raid your brains out to be good at raiding.
With far fewer raid days invested into progression. Derailment inc ....it's too bad that there isn't a way to track how much time a guild puts into progression ... I would think that would be a far more accurate measure of rankings and fairer to those guilds that don't require members to be available 24/7 to raid lockouts in the race for first serverwide.
