[RF][LJ] For your consideration.

this game has changed so much from classic, the original design doesnt account for current H2H dmg, OP pets, current mitigation and resist calculation yadda yadda yadda. half of the stuff on this server is not true to the original design.

half and half i would say is a pretty damn level playing field. which is how things based around reaction times usually are. sometimes you are faster, sometimes you are not fast enough. now you are getting into the argument that someone that has 12 subscriptions is not entitled to 12 subscriptions worth of content.

I'm not interested in discussing other problems with our current age of gaming vs. how we coalesce with old game content at this time. Specifically, I'm only giving an opinion on 3rd party programs and how they are used to unintentionally or intentionally affect a whole server's economy, social interaction, and gameplay.

There's clearly unintended advantages that greatly change the gameplay and affects more than just the user getting ahead. There is no argument. Any attempt to compare apples to oranges is losing sight of the point in focus.

If Nathalinil wants my view on 3rd party programs that change the scope of game play in such an obvious way, then I believe I spelled it out pretty clearly from my earlier post about preservation of the spirit and intent of the earlier EQ experience.

No offense Nathalinil. I don't think these are the right servers for those tools.

just to be clear only the 1st half of that last post was in response to you, the rest was a general response to this thread.

The fact that this game has changed so much from true classic is not the main issue. It is AN issue. You side stepped everything else I said.

You still haven't convinced me, or really anyone else, how it is fair for one single person to kill steal from an entire raid half the time. I'm pretty much done answering. Go ahead and get the last word in, because we know you will. It doesn't matter, though. My point has been made.

Its obvious that a large amount of players want to play on a server where every group is 6 different physical people,and each raid is 54 or 72 physical people. Yes the population is lower now days and boxing helps make more possible with less players. However I think if a server with this ruleset would do very well and please a lot of people. They want it give it to them you get 1 expansion every 1-2 years then they cant say its moving to fast or they cant do everything they wanted. P99 is nice for certain niche but it just has too many unenjoyable aspects to it for the majority of players now days.

this is a discussion, that is what forums are for. we discuss back and for. how dare i reply to you replying to me? i am not trying to convince you of anything. it is clearly evident you cannot be convinced. what i am doing is trying to help other people that can make up their own mind about issues by seeing both sides. lets break "your point" down to the very basics.

"how it is fair for one single person to kill steal from an entire raid half the time."

lets start with the first bold, if a single person has 12 subscriptions are they not entitled to 12 subscriptions worth of content? this is how business works. 12 subscriptions = 12 subscriptions worth of content, doesnt matter if 1 person or 12. tell me, is it ok for a single person to be able to kill something that the game never intended a single person to do by having 2 or 3 accounts? they have an advantage over someone playing a single character. where do you draw the line? and who should be responsible for deciding where that line should be?

kill steal - this is a PNP issue, you are allowed to KS. i have never advocated that KSing is great or fun. should you be able to? imo NO. if you dislike KSing and DPS fights then argue to get the PNP changed to what it was, stop blaming boxing. you can be killing a level 25 named and be KSd by a solo level 50 player. you can be in end game raid content right now on these servers and be KS'd by a full raid of individual players, its going on every day. banning broadcasters will not stop KSing.

half the time - how is this not fair? if it was 2 raids of individuals this would be considered even no? they are both getting half the kills. can you not accept that because of your intense hatred for boxing?

===============
For #2:

To get a static VPN ya have to pay premium; the others that are 'variable' are easily detected by many other MMO's these days because it plays havoc with the additional security keys players get to make their account safe. So it still would limit or lessen the number of people botting. The majority of botters have a system most know about in order not to pay fresh cash for any part of their operation once the initial leveling of some characters are accomplished. So they would not like to have to pay for a static VPN to carry on their 'business.'

Its known that [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] isn't the problem, however it is utilized by many because it enables those who do want to exploit to use the other two add-on programs which greatly incentivize anyone to exploit. There are scads of public forums and board posts specifically addressing how to, 'helps' on utilizing k rono useage, and selling player character accounts on other easily accessible sites right now pertaining to Ragefire and Lockjaw.

But yes, rune00, the parent company involved here shows no sign of wanting to address the overall anguish many single players here are having to deal with/ such for their customers, or expend much of the overpopulation profit they have received by those who flocked back to this game for nostalgia purposes towards addressing this ongoing topic.

IF they enforced PnP, I'd imagine that the majority of those raising hell about boxers in general would lessen majorly since it would be clear the difference between players who box for their own above board reasons, and those that are in it to earn currency by any means available, both ingame and out. Sad situation.

I wonder if some players should get together and initiate a kick starter campaign to create a fund in order to offer to pay the salary for two years to hire some number of devs to carry out the position of ingame PnP policy standard bearers. Would even that get DBG to reinstate some kind of help for those in the community stressed about the slimeballs? *Heh. Just musing of course.

This is a pretty ridiculous argument to make considering that a $10 donation to EqMule or one of the other devs gets you access to a ton of macros designed for unattended gameplay. But sure, they don't "ship" with the base program, so of course eqmule or the other devs are against that sort of thing.

If DBG would have not allowed Kronos to be used on Rage or LJ it would have solved a lot of the problems.

Well GeeLock since eqmule isn't here to defend himself (or is he?) as someone who has the kind of access on the board you are referring to I can say that:
1. Afk macros are not looked upon kindly over there, but freedom of speech is (within reason) which is why that board will never be moderated as hard as it perhaps should be, (?) also you have to remember there are no paid moderators either to go over every single macro to check which ones are able to run unattended or not.
2. Looking through it now, I wouldn't call it "tons" either, that's just hyperbole, I actually just found a few and most are like years old and not updated, I don't even think they still work...
3. A simple search, on that forum, for afk macro will show you a bunch of posts where users who has even just mentioned afk macroing or posted a afk macro has been banned/suspended/warned and post removed/censored by the devs. Again it's unfair to judge a legit tool for attended boxing just cause some users abuse it for unattended gameplay.

its not a legit tool, how ever you want to spin it.. keep telling your self that tho.. the out of the box version has map hacks, as well as other functionality that alters game play WELL beyond key replication.. As rune00 has basically admitted to using this program can the devs plz look into his account.

+1

I think the idea is great -- but only if the GM's actually start doing something about the people running mage armies. I just don't see that happening tbh...they are SILENT about this issue.

I once played a game that got destroyed. The start of the destruction was threads like this.

1. Players demanded more GM enforcement
2. Game owner assigned player deputys
3. Player deputys started out with banning first, and asking questions after
4. The playerbase outraged, but player deputys continued
5 Player Deputys started to individually green light everyone to play, Everyone who wanted to play the game had to contact the deputys on skype and ask permition to play.
6 Game owners took the game out becuase of the incredibly bad publicity they got from that model.

Please be carefull what you ask for, Everquest in this form is in realy great shape. We have lots of active players. In my lvl 30 world i have not once been KSed, nor have i met 6box armies.

Also I am suspecting that alot of theese threads are made by realy low lvl players who imagine how horrible the game is, without any real experience.

1. I suspect there is literally no way to enforce it unless you get buy in from all of the producers of boxing/botting software. I don't believe that is possible.

2. I've been boxing in EQ1 for 15 years since way before any of the present 3rd party software existed. I used to use 6 different PCs to run 6 different characters on 6 different monitors. Getting buy in from all the software suppliers will not stop people running multiple accounts concurrently that can do everything they do with [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] (for example). Software and hardware solutions exist to run multiple PCs from one mouse and keyboard,

3. I would be surprised if enough people would be interested in it to make it viable.


Bottom line I don't believe it can happen outside of restricting it to one client per household and even then some people will get around it. Further I don't believe it comes anywhere near close to being financially viable even if they miraculously came up with a workable solution.



In my opinion this issue is distracting from something much more insidious which is Kronos allowing a very small number of people to control the economy and the state of item farming.

And in closing the real dangerous 3rd party software is what it has always been - ShowEQ, which the vast majority of people boxing do not approve of. As always it is far less visible to the player base so it is ignored.

Do you think they would have to put some kind of DRM like software on people's computers to detect if multiple versions of EQ are running at the same time?

What Holly referenced in her tweet was a special server with a dedicated client that only allowed one incident of the client to be run on a single computer. In this case if you wanted to multi-box you'd need separate computers to run each character. VM's are already detected and will get you banned.

Putting it bluntly if someone is making real money from the game then picking up a few cheap boxes that can be dedicated to playing isn't a big sacrifice and in fact I'd think most of those guys do have additional machines alread available.

Hmmm

Yes. They can already detect if EQ is running on vmware, and that is frowned upon. So if they want to limit it to 1 account per computer, and not impact all the other servers, they would need a new client, one that is capable of reading memory to determine if more than version of the software is running in memory.

You cannot generalize like that. While there are people, you nor I have any really idea whether it's a large number and enough to support a server.

I'm all for a server with this ruleset, primarily because I believe MMO always should have catered to the multiplayer aspect of the game, which I attest boxing is and has been ruining.

I wanted to play on Ragefire since it was supposed to have that "1999 feel", but then we every general chat was talking about how the mage boxes or whatever beat the content within 36 hours, leaving the rest of to sit here wondering what the point is in even playing if casuals like myself were beaten to the punch by how heinously overpowered magicians are on the TLP servers.

It's clear that the PNP will never be enforced fully unless there are GM's in the game, that much is apparent on both the live servers and in the TLPs. Since a lot of people were sacked after the SOE turns Daybreak stuff, I personally doubt that having GMs on the servers will be next to improbable.

My reservations on the whole 1 account per computer is feeling like that is something that could probably be easily worked around, since everyone and their mother knows how to google IP spoofing/MAC spoofing/VM/Blah blah blah.
Maybe if they made it to where you could only launch 1 client, and then trying to use the launcher again while eqgame.exe is running would bring up an error message...idek.

And if they do make a server like this? First and foremost I hope that they ensure any major bug is taken care of prior to launch...because the whole load-balancing thing screwed with live and made a lot of us very angry (and it was widely regarded as a bad move).
And then I hope they can manage to nerf the mages/wizards back to nostalgia status (if it's even possible what with live servers...)

Why do we need a 'boxing-encouraged' rule set server when all 15 live servers and all 4 TLPs welcome it fullheartedly?

Almost everyone I know quit because of boxers. They literally ruin the experience and make it much harder to group or find name camps. I know boxers keep the lights on with the live servers, trust me I know, though I did eventually quit because they destroy the social aspect of the game.

Frankly I understand how important boxers are to keeping the game alive BUT having one.single.server where we don't have to deal with them would be absolutely amazing.


I was in a single box only guild on ragefire that was flourishing for a while but quickly it has fallen to almost nothing and people that quit always give the same reason - boxers ruining the experience.

Let them have two TLPs and literally every live server. Please-PLEASE just give us ONE. Seeing people single boxing is like finding a rare spawn now - boxers choked them out.