[RF][LJ] For your consideration.

Hello fellow TLP'ers.

I wanted to share some thoughts I've had over the last couple of days. I've seen four distinct groups of players lumped into one demonized group and I wanted to address the differences.

I am a boxer, I am currently running a mage team, and I am using software to broadcast keys. I started boxing two weeks ago for two reasons. First, it looked like a lot of fun and I wanted to see what it was like. Second, I wanted to have the ability the push back if someone decided they wanted to steal a camp, or train my character, or steal my mobs. Now that I've had two weeks to play with the team I can say that it is ALOT of fun and challenging in different ways than a single character.

I've seen a recurring theme in every form of consumable media in game and out of game, and that theme is that boxers and especially mage team boxers are cheating jerks that exploit others for monetary gain and will do whatever it takes to get what they want. The word box and bot seemed to be interchangeable in pretty much all cases as well.

Yes there are people that play 6 toons and steal camps and act like jerks. There are also people that have bots play their 6 toons for them for hours on end. There are even people that play 6 toons and hack their way to victory. But that doesn't describe every person that boxes 6 toons. In fact, there are plenty of non-boxers that can be described by one or more of the above.

I'm not boxing to avoid people or to be a jerk. I spent last night at the FP in Unrest hoping that a camp would either clear out or that a new instance would spawn. While I was waiting I was chatting with the group there and helping kill mobs after the group took them down to 49%. I've never intentionally taken a camp or stolen a kill. I've had plenty of people act like I was the incarnation of Evil and assume that I was going to steal a camp or a kill or just say something crass in passing. There has been a total of one instance where I killed a named that a group said they were intending to kill and that was because auto-follow makes weird looping right or left turns in Unrest if you cut a corner too quickly and the rest of my team ran into Korklar's room and said "Hi" and it was either kill him or let one or two of my toons die. Even though I left the items on the corpse and apologized with the reason why I killed him I was treated like trash.

I'm just asking that you understand that just because I'm boxing doesn't automatically make me a jerk or a cheater. I will admit that it gives me that advantages of a group over a single player, but I don't go around using that as a bludgeon to get my way.

I feel that there are a lot of neat opportunities for fun events/experiences using the boxes: mage triage center using summoned bandages, chicken fights using mage pets, etc. Please don't lump all boxers in with the frequently cited worst examples of this community. Thanks.

I have a question: did you pay $90 from your credit card in your actual name to start up that box crew, or are others paying your way by buying loot from you for Kronos?

what the guy is saying is just because he has the power to be a jerk doesn't make him a jerk and don't paint all with the same brush and faded colors

A little of both? I have a year subscription on my main account that I paid for at the announcement of the server. And then bought several Kronos because I thought that it would be nice to have certain items. Four of those Krono ended up going to those accounts, I actually spent time trading for a profit and managed to net an extra Krono. For the last account I just paid for a subscription.

Everyone has the power to be a jerk. Yes my potential for jerkhood increases exponentially when boxing, but that shouldn't make me a villain.

It's not a great analogy, but someone who carries a gun for protection has the potential to ruin a lot of peoples day. But someone with out a gun can ruin someone's day too. In another thread someone said that its a psychotic desire for power that drives boxers. I guess that's possible, I don't think I'm psychotic but I think psychotic people would say that.

At the same time I have the potential to do more good on 6 characters than I would on just one.

I would love to see games that actually try to make you control a box team, as part of the game. I think it would be fun. Kind of like the Dungeon Siege games, but more dynamic and less computer assistance.

I don't think it belongs in EQ, however. EQ was never meant for a 6 to 20 man boxer team that works in perfect unison from a single human.

It's less about boxing and more about player mentality.
5 mages and a druid have the ability to wreak havoc on a server if the guy pushing the buttons decides that's how he wants to play.

There are some that truly hate all boxers, I believe they're a minority.
Some that hate 3rd party legit boxers (seems to be more of these).
Personally I just hate the non legit boxers because I believe that hacks have no place on a server where we're supposed to have a level playing field. I won't sink low enough to level that playing field either.

You might be receiving fallout from a previous bad experience or you might of just run into a hater. Sorry you had to go through that.

I've played for years though and I'm used to boxers, iirc when I first came back I did find it frustrating when a boxer would just take a camp. I know camps don't exist but regular folk seem to respect the practice. Over the years my skin has thickened I guess, I just got used to it.
I've never seen this much hate before and it is a 2 way street!
I've never seen this many boxes competing for camps/named mobs before either
Boxers seem to hate threads about boxing, so does Daybreak, this will probably get locked/deleted pretty soon.

That's fair. It's definitely outside the original intention of the game's developers. But I think that started to change with the later expansions. Mercenaries are similar to boxes, so I think the developers at least recognized that for a while now a significant portion of the EQ player base boxes. Again I just started, but before this TLP I think boxers and raiders made up the majority of the players on the other servers, even if it was just 2-3 boxers.

How can you pick Dungeon Siege over Final Fantasy?
What's wrong with you?

Maybe, I guess it depends on if this thread derails and/or starts becoming a platform for personal attacks which I hope doesn't happen.

I agree with your other points

I do admit that I do picture a party full of Black Mages running through FFV at times.

That's a great analogy, going to go home and play with the world theme playing in the background

1 button to fire off 5 nukes just dont seam right to me, don't understand how people justify this

/pause 40, /cast 1
/pause 35, /cast 2
/pause 40, /cast 3
/pause 25, /cast 4
/cast 5

these 5 lines in an in game macro can achieve the very same thing. you can press 1 button and cast 5 nukes, and its built right into the game - no need for 3rd party programs.

thats not the same thing, its 5 times mage nuke at once, not 5 nukes casted over 5 minutes

That's true, but what you are describing is different than what Eqplayer is referring to. Broadcasting allows me to cast 6 spells simultaneously, without the need of complicated macro timing. If I draw aggro I can respond just as quickly

I don't really have an answer for you. It is a clear advantage, and in the past it was against the EULA. But as with all things, this policy changed with the dip in total subscribers.

I'm sorry that it goes against what you feel is right, and will try to never abuse it or to use it to oppress other players.

how is it different enough to warrant 1 being ok and the other not? you specifically said "1 button to fire off 5 nukes just dont seam right to me"

in both scenarios you are pressing a key once yet getting 5 actions out of it.

Becuse you have a macro working as fast as you clicking the abilities. With 3rd party software, it is doing much more complex work. Combine the 2, you got 1 click, 25 spells cast.

Not to mention that in the world of dps entitling you to loot being able to cast spells as quickly as possible (nearly simultaneously across multiple clients) gives you a decisive advantage over those who have to switch back and forth between clients.

that is for one character to fire off 5 spells but you can not make that same button in game to fire from other characters. if you can please show me how to control my g/f's cleric and my sk from the sk's ui only as i will not pay for that program.