Revisiting Dono's Solution to Loot Randomization

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Dono27, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. Thename New Member

    Need to rename the server to : tier base loot server rather than random. Finally, not sure what’s the point any more, loot has become predictable and boring. Kunark was much better. Bring backs the original vision, random everything.

    In regards to Luclin, if VT loot only drops in VT, shame.
  2. Sillyfish Elder

    I think OP's idea needs to be implemented, from what I know about the current situation.

    Great idea Dono.
    Dono27 likes this.
  3. Dono27 Journeyman

    I largely agree, but there seems to have been a great and immediate outcry when Velious launched, followed by a proposal for tiers that was immediately and completely adopted by the devs. So this seems a reasonable compromise and implementation of the tiers. There is still ample incentive and reward for tackling the most challenging content while maintaining a fair amount of randomization, appealing to the broadest player base and making the broadest range of content relevant.
  4. Dono27 Journeyman

    At the risk of digressing from the main point of the thread, I wouldn’t expect that VT loot will only drop in VT, even in the current system. That wasn’t the case for VP or ST. I too would consider that a major step in the wrong direction.
  5. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    From what they said at launch loot should only drop within the expansion that it is from.
  6. Vxefa New Member

    OP idea is good, much better than the current system. Server was really good in classic/kunark, but the current velious tiered system leaves a lot to be desired. OPs idea mixes a bit of classic/kunark with the current velious tier system while leaving the randomness of the server still in tact.
    Dono27 likes this.
  7. Dono27 Journeyman

    I agree. What I am expecting is that VT loot could drop in other places in the Luclin expansion, like Ssra. If its anything like the Tier system in Velious, and I'm not saying it needs to be, then I would expect that Aten Ha Ra, Emp Ssra, Lord Seru, and hopefully more will be in the same Tier. ST loot drops in NToV. VP loot dropped off VS in KC. So, it doesn't seem like they are sequestering keyed zones - and they shouldn't.

    Relatedly, too few mobs in a Tier just makes it more stupid and not random. A top end Tier should still have at least 6+ mobs, from different zones, like Velious. (Lord Vyemm is the hardest mob in NToV but is Tier 2, and Vindi is in Tier 4, so difficulty is clearly not determinative.). But, as is the central point of my idea, hard set Tiers, having loot ceilings and floors, just makes the developers' job so much more difficult and their odds of getting it just right so much more improbable.

    (P.S. I have generally been against the Tiers, actually. I don't really recall any complaints when VS was dropping Robe of the Azure Sky. My proposal is just trying to improve the Tier system that they did implement. If we have to have it, I think doing it the way that I have set out makes the most sense.)
    Venalin likes this.
  8. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Incentivizing highend farm crews won't do anything to stop the masses from being bored with late era expacs they've done for the umpteenth time. If anything, it will stop casuals from getting OW weak mobs as competition is driven up.

    We have to look at the incentives something like this creates. It doesn't do anything really to compel players to keep playing if they are tired of farming high end gods, they aren't suddenly compelled to fight trivial mobs. The only people that are really going to be moved by something like this are the hardcore farmers who are not burnt out yet in the first place.
  9. Dono27 Journeyman

    I disagree.

    In the first, I don’t think casuals care about open world mobs. They log on for the few hours that they might get a few times a week. Open world doesn’t often cooperate with the prime time players.

    Secondly, random loot completely changes the mindset going into a raid. It’s completely different if you have the possibility of good loot that you might want, as opposed to knowing what you are going to see and knowing that you aren’t going to give a crap about anything that drops in the next 2-3 hours.
    Neceros likes this.
  10. verbatim Elder

    Love the current loot rules, but I am ok with the OP's suggestion.

    I am honestly glad my guild has no interest in velks/woushie- but some pretty low chance of them dropping high end loot might make gdkp/small group raiding more worthwhile- not that there is honestly any shortage of targets even when you are singularly focused on what is dropping vulak loot.
  11. honker3576 New Member

    Idea's sound and relatively simple but it still delegates mobs to an arbitrary separation based on perceived difficulty. As we enter an era of EQ where the raids get very top heavy, these low-tier bosses may be harder and harder to find. If the devs are willing to create and define it every expansion, fine by me.

    Also it's cringe that this idea of trickle down loot pools, or difficulty-quality linear loot system echoed independently across multiple guilds is being claimed by some literal who.
  12. Dono27 Journeyman

    I honestly don't care about credit. I just needed a title. I had written out this prposed system in 2-3 other places on this forum prior but the posts were ninja deleted.
  13. verbatim Elder

    This has been litigated a thousand times, but woushie dropping AoW loot kunark style just doesn't make the game better. If you are able to kill tormax/yelinak/CT which any guild that can field 40-60 people should, then by this point you have already gotten more velious top tier loot than you have on any server ever. Making people chase two group mobs around the world 24/7 isn't just dumb, and moreover its also unnecessary when it comes to solving the access/equity concerns that have been raised.

    That aside, the mobs in the dain loot pool are also still pretty rewarding, and the doze/tear loot pool mobs are still getting killed by larger guilds, NToV dragons and ST dragons also still have some good 1.0 stuff in their pool. The game presents different problems to everyone playing it, and group size/composition matters in terms of solving those problems. Some problems just can't be solved by smaller groups of players in a timely fashion and there isn't anything wrong with that. The velious tiered loot system is way more accessible, and way more engaging than any previous sever ever has been. Instead of having to kill all of NToV to get a single vulak- you can kill six different mobs some of which can be downed in 15-30 minutes start to finish (and you are given multiple bosses in that pool's loot as a reward), arguing that this system doesn't go far enough is just kind of an odd claim that I really can't comprehend.

    What I like about the OP's suggestion is that it makes those two-three group mobs sufficiently unattractive to large guilds such at they will be left open to smaller ffa/gdkp & small guilds to pursue- while still leaving open the possibility that something really good will drop. I think if you go too far towards the kunark solution you will just incentivize large guilds to 8 split those lower tier mobs and that is honestly just pretty lame.

    Really it just feels like all this discourse around 'randomization' and 'how fun kunark was' is just disingenuous and what people really want is just trivial access to all the best loot- to which I would just say this server already has a solution for that- it's a free trade server you can just go to the tunnel and buy what you want if you don't want to raid for it.
  14. Elite_raider Augur

    Why go for the middle way between the way it was in Classic/Kunrak that everyone loved and the way it is in Velious that everyone hates, when we can just go back to what everyone loved, the way it was in Classic/Kunrak????
    Neceros likes this.
  15. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Because not everyone loved it? Not everyone currently hates it either.
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Because there is a wider range of raid difficulties in Velious and later expansions? As they go on there are more clearly defined tiers of raids due to the fact that there are a lot more raid targets then in Classic and Kunark.
  17. Elite_raider Augur

    I don't buy it, you keep saying one thing, but your actions all point towards you wanting to minimize the amount of time you need to spend to get biz items. I hate to break it to you, but you are not special because you joined a zerg guild that uses numbers to remove any risk or strategy from taking down raid encounters, you are coming off as entitled brats......
  18. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Pot, Kettle.
  19. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    While this idea is interesting, it is a major re-write (I.E. Large amount of code re-writen, a not insignificant amount of design time as well) of the system.

    currently an NPC can only be in one bucket, the idea above, for example, have Vulak in 4 buckets. So people raiding Vulak would have a chance to get loot from the Tier 4 mobs, and no tier 1 loot.

    It is also currently each time an NPC rolls, it has an equal chance of getting anything in the same pool. There is a mechanism where some roll more than once. But each roll is an even split.
    Dono27, Skuz, Boze and 1 other person like this.
  20. Neceros New Member

    Isn't the goal of this wave of servers to allow more people to experience high end gear/content more easily? That sounds really fun not to worry about killing each target as I always do to get the items I always want.

    But this randomization thing only really works if there's an increase in the volume of loot per mob. It takes on a bit of a diablo feeling to it without drastically changing much else.

    If that isn't it, then what is the goal??