Review of TOL expansion

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, Dec 11, 2021.

  1. Windance Augur

    Anyone else remember when they went back and straightened out the XP curve to make it manageable?

    Hope the there are still some dev's around from when that happened and can explain it to the decision makers.
    Scila, Shindius, Skuz and 1 other person like this.
  2. Micker Augur

    Missions and tasks should be about getting items and coins etc.. Killing mobs should be how you get exp. That's how original eq was and several expansions after. Quest for items, kill for exp.
    Scila, Fenthen and Windance like this.
  3. Bobokin Augur

    FIFY

    So Everquest has become Everbeg?

    Except that is All Access only and that player's friends or old mates are likely on a live server.

    They represent a tiny percentage on live servers because many players quit over this. My kids played Everquest for 10-15 years of their lives, but they quit, their cousins quit, and their friends quit because Everquest now caters to automated bot armies rather than individual players and pick up groups. The current model is not fun for many people looking to play the game without cheats.
    Skuz likes this.
  4. Bobokin Augur

    You didn't notice the $139 price tag for an expac with goodies. Premium Editions were once Collector's Editions, and Collector's Editions were once box versions. If Everquest is not fun for new/returning players, it is a dead ended game, and costs to all players left will be higher.

    Not only that, it would be nice to play on a live server that isn't filled with retired players in real life.
    Silvena and Skuz like this.
  5. Kazint Augur

    Being forced to grind the same mobs all day is terrible. Leave that for people who want hunters.
  6. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    What you forget is EQ gets a large amount of returning players who are being crapped on with these changes.

    ALMOST ALL the lower level folks are people coming back to the game. Slap them in the face when they get back and EQ will die off all the sooner.
  7. Qwalla Developer

    Hi all :p

    I'm not going to specifically comment on any of the topics raised in this thread, but I just wanted to pass on our appreciation of your feedback. We've made note of the things you're bringing up and, internally, all the designers and our fabulous coders are hearing the things you have to say. I actually get excited when I see new messages on a thread like this because it means I'm about to hear something new. Or maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment. ¿Por qué no los dos? This isn't a promise that everything is going to change (I've said it before: it's impossible to make everyone happy), but I just wanted you to know that you aren't yelling into the void.

    [IMG]
    Phaith, IblisTheMage, RPoo and 22 others like this.
  8. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor


    Thanks for posting, hope we don't discourage or burn you out. We just want the game to be the best it can be, but at times can feel like upper management cuts back on resources while enforcing the same scheduling deadlines on the staff. Which leads to a lack of development and creativity to just meet the deadlines.
    Shindius, Qwalla, Skuz and 1 other person like this.
  9. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Before World of Warcaft happened nobody on earth believed an MMO would attract more then a couple hundred thousand players, literally nobody thought EQ would be as big as it was at its peak either.

    Nobody thought Runescape Old School would attract 15 million players to a phone version of a very dumbed down MMO with shoddy graphics either.

    There are a lot of unknowns for sure, but what has been proven again & again is that folks that think "it can't happen" get proven wrong all the dang time.

    I don't think there is a few thousand people who would like to play EQ as it stands right now - I'm willing to bet that there are several hundred thousand who would give a "classic EQ on mobile" a whirl (keeping a very simple UI), I'm also willing to bet that a reinvigorated fully revamped EQ would attract both old & new players.

    You & I are the "first generation" MMO players, and I think if anything my 51 years has taught me is that things often come back around again, flared trousers from the 1960's have made a few reappearances, denims from the 1850's (and accidentally also boxer shorts underwear) were suddenly popular again thanks to some good looking lad stripping to his boxers to the sound of "Heard it through the Grapevine"
    A second generation of MMO players could be out there hungry for a good MMO they just don't know they want yet.
    Treage_Imminent, Vizier and Shindius like this.
  10. Aneia Master

    So, I've played on TLP servers the last ten years and haven't experienced a live expansion launch since SoF. Overall, I think the expansion launch was solid from content and server perspectives. OP commented on a number of issues that were not fully polished, but as long as these are being actively addressed and resolved over the next month, I think it's acceptable.

    My only major complaint is the quest/mission achievement experience being enshrined as the only viable way to level. I enjoy doing the quests and would finish them regardless of the reward, because it provides motivation to get out and explore the world, learn how content works, and apply some creative problem solving to different situations. However, it SHOULD NOT be the sole leveling path. Quest/mission achievement experience rewards should be halved or eliminated and NPC kill experience doubled.
  11. RyeToast New Member

    Glad a dev popped in. Fix Overseer please.
  12. Gorg00 Augur


    It's entirely viable to grind your way to 120, it's just not the most efficient.
    code-zero and Szilent like this.
  13. Aneia Master

    Thank you Doctor, I didn't realize that.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Yes.

    But there was a deliberate increase in the degree / severity of grind required demarked by ToV because the dev team intentionally raised the amount of XP required to level by a very large amount.

    Pre ToV grind to a level versus Post ToV grind to a level are absolutely worlds apart.
    The purpose of that was to make grinding super-unattractive & to make the progression content super-attractive.

    What it was blindly doing was setting the stage to take a giant sledgehammer to a paradigm that had existed for almost 2 decades, the one where if you could not play in the current content as you were too far behind to get groups that you could catch up by grinding and this not need to be carried through the progression system by some super-generous folks who were really happy to help a lowbie out.

    Players who are already "at" the level for the new expansions have likely lost touch with just how dead the rest of the game is, they don't need to think about it because if they want another alt they can probably just powerlevel it themselves.

    TLP are an imperfect solution, I know this as I played through on the second server to make it to live after Selo, and as a Euro that was a particularly painful last few expansions struggling along with almost half a raidforce. I'm not confident future TLP are going to fare massively better given that every year there will be another expansion for the TLP to work through added onto the end of their life-cycle, the attrition across 27 expansions is fairly predictable at this point.

    That's why a "squire/side-kick" system is a far more elegant & inclusive solution than Heroic upgrades or begging/paying to be carried through Progression missions over & over.
    Vizier, Clefairy69, Marton and 2 others like this.
  15. Szilent Augur

    Wanting to get the expansion's levels without playing the expansion's content is a weird thing to feel entitled to.

    Complaining that leveling is too hard in the face of max characters proliferating, and in the first week, is bewildering.

    Exp from monsters is entirely fine.
  16. Szilent Augur

    Someone who is 30 levels behind the curve doesn't need ToL exp to catch up. Just like everyone did, they level through 110 just killing things, which is pretty sad because they're going to miss literal decades of content power grinding that way. Then if they care about leveling, they'll pound through ToV-CoV-ToL quest content in a couple days each and BOOM be max level with everyone else *and* they'll have gotten to see the expansions!
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  17. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    You have not understood the problem.

    How does a player who cannot group with max level players even begin to "pound through ToV-CoV-ToL quest content" alone / molo? EQ expansions are built for groups.

    Will the devs be allowing them to have 5 much better than present versions of the Mercs up at the same time while that far behind in levels?
    Will they be allowed 5 F2P boxes which they will be allowed to use scripting software to automate for them while they play their one character?
    Will all of that content get down-tuned in difficulty for a Molo player?

    I think not.

    In short, how does a Level 111 player get reasonable XP playing the game when everyone else is at a level cap of 145?

    Your solution and the devs is that they use overseer, which is essentially saying they may as well not bother playing at all, they can't get groups to go through the progression content to gain 111-115 as the players who played ToV when it was currrent did, and the devs made each level's XP requirement hugely larger than it was in the prior levels of the game.

    To that 111 player they will feel like they just hit a brick wall or at the most optimistic they just re-discovered EQ "Hell Levels" only now every level over 111 is a hell level.

    The TBL content is now lower XP thanks to the nerfed xp for older expansions than your current level code (the bug around first to engage bypassing that may get fixed one day).

    They have only one "active" option left, grinding mobs, only now the XP required by each level means a mob is worth so little XP as a percentage of what they need that it will feel terribly slow compared to even TBL, and after ToV they have CoV & ToL to "look forward to" more of those hell levels.

    There is no solo path through the progression system, without groups mob grind & overseer are all they have.
    Overseering your way from 111-115 instead of actively playing for xp is a very strange thing to be considered the new norm.

    The longer EQ carries on down this road the bigger that stretch of hell levels is going to become, and thus EQ will become vastly more hostile to returning & new players without some fundamental changes to avoid doing so.

    Foresight.
  18. Qimble Augur



    All the 120s I have seen on my server either rushed the progression or pulled a long afkbot grind. The day1/2 120s used banked 24 hour crit success overseers + old collections to get 117/118, missions to get a level, then the easier progression to finish off.


    My concern is mainly the AAxp rate being kinda low compared to mob HP, but if you've got a rogue or two who can assassinate and pick your camps carefully that shouldn't be too difficult. According to some guildies double rogue groups can average less than 10s per kill.
  19. Zunnoab Augur

    Judging something based on the outliers who grind things out extremely quickly isn't a good point in my opinion. I'm not expressing opinion on the mob experience, however.

    One thing I like about the emphasis on quest experience is it gets people doing the new content. I remember exactly how it used to be, back in the years where I'd actually grind to max in a couple days. I'd go with people and we would just sit there and grind an old expansion's mobs incessantly until we leveled. Friends of mine had me make a progression server character, and I was all excited to play "current" Shadows of Luclin. Them: "Where do you want to go?" Me: "Somewhere in Luclin." Them: "So we'll go to Unrest and Velk's!" And then PoP came out. I enjoyed playing with them, but it taught me I don't like the progression server grind.

    I'm a fan of the Overseer experience. It's not a ton of experience. If people level primarily with it, it's going to take a very long time. I think that's fine, and I was worried they would take an axe to it to "encourage" people to buy the perk that gets rid of losing levels (something that probably should have been a standard game change years ago, but whatever). Thankfully, they haven't. It's especially useful for those raiders who do not have time to grind experience back, and helps to lessen the disproportionate experience loss tanks have to deal with on raids.
  20. Marton Augur

    I don't want to get levels without playing but I want to have options how to get those levels.

    I feel that we no longer have options we used to have.
    Arcolin, Velisaris_MS and Aneia like this.