Review of NOS expansion

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, Dec 16, 2022.

  1. Fian Augur

    I have completed all quests (aka Champion achieve) and missions (Paragon achieve) plus well on my way to challenger, collection, and hunter achievements, so I think this is a good time to review this expansion.

    Good:
    • Multiple new mob models
    • 3 new zones, one of which is very impressive (Deepshade). For those that haven't seen it, I would describe it as Avatar like, but not really.
    • Average mob hp seems similar than last expansion. A welcome change over the drastic hp increase of the last 2 expansions.
    • New quest mechanic of following a NPC. Get too close and he ports you out of the zone. Some don't like it, but I give kudos to dev team for trying something new.
    • Missions have some interesting mechanics. I expect raids to be interesting as well.
    Items I did not like:
    • Mob difficulty has multiple issues. First, is they are too easy to tank. I know this comes from a raider perspective, but when my enc pet can tank with a healer merc backing them up in a T2 zone and health not drop below 90%,something is wrong. Some mobs are harder than others though. It seems like T2 mobs are about as difficult to tank/kill as last expansion. What this means is as people increase in power this expansion, it will become even easier to tank mobs in this expansion to a point where they are trivial.
    • Mobs have a massive range in hp. Some normal mobs like golems in shadowhaven have the hp of bosses. Others have very low hp (and less exp), but still drop TS items. The first seems like a bug, and the other just means you either ignore them or exploit them.
    • Mobs aren't that interesting. ROS was a good example of mobs that would poison you, stun you, etc. TOL had shamans that would buff fellow mobs with DS, etc. Mobs in this expansion are pretty basic.
    • Collection drop rate that was already low since COV, seems worse in this expansion. That becomes an even bigger issue with mobs with double the hp. You eventually learn which mobs to focus on for collections, but even with that, the drop rate is poor.
    • New drops for TS items is a real negative. Mission chests have a lot of items that you don't need, and rarely an item you need for the new TS items. I get that they want to slow gear acquisition, but I don't like the new system. If you want to slow down gear acquisition, target the tradeskill side of things, not the purchaser side of things. As it stands now, I see little reason to make TS items, as my customers won't be able to use them. It also makes things very confusing to know what you need for each item.
    • Lots of running back and forth in quests this expansion. It was not fun, and a game should be fun.
    Tegila, Skuz, Rolaque and 3 others like this.
  2. Fian Augur

    Some general thoughts about modern EQ design.
    • Mission chests are candy land. Bring back EOK and previous expansions where a chest might give you a mission only item, and some spells.
    • Coins should not be locked only in missions. TBM had it right. Every quest you did would give you coin, so you had a reason to rerun them, helping others complete them for the first time. We have so little content each year, so making rerunning parts of it rewarding would be a plus.
    • Less emphasis on trade skills. Level expansions should have a full set of gear, but T1 like ROS that does not require the purchaser to have a drop to use the item they just bought. I would probably put a TS quest on the non-level expansion. I know that raid containers are a big thing for TS, but I would probably just put the containers on merchants. Plus I would make the container gear less than the actual raid drops, aka the way that ROS did it with the diamonds making lesser raid gear.
    Skuz, Vumad, scaethach and 5 others like this.
  3. Qimble Augur

    I'm sure the dev who designed the quest was laughing when they made it port you to the underwater tunnel to the next zone so that you can't just run back to the quest giver. I'm sure he was cackling to himself thinking about how much it was going to annoy player. Wish they would've spent that time working on the actual coding of the task so that it wouldn't randomly miss some people for updates when they're standing a pile.
    Skuz and Joules_Bianchi like this.
  4. Allayna Augur

    They could have been truly evil and had it port you to the OG paludal caverns...
    Tucoh likes this.
  5. Duder Augur

    I was severely disappointed by CoV and ToL, to the point where I quit for most of ToL. This expansion has a lot to offer, the content is fun, the raids I have done on Beta were fun. We have an evolving item and new type 18/19s, THE NEW CLICKIES from the faction work... this is a fantastic expansion and I am exquisitely pleased with it so far. I am glad we have been blessed with a good expansion. Please keep up the good work next year team.
    Celephane, Paladin and Elyssanda like this.
  6. Heimdall Elder

    I get the feeling they're finally giving in to the WoW/SWTOR paradigm.
    • Zones each have their own little story
    • Quests are what level you
    • The quests interlock/interact i.e. this Parti Task takes you to that Merc Task etc.
    • This often results in a big loop around the zone that takes you back to the zone line.
    That's not a bad system and cane be pretty entertaining. Even criss-cross errand running can work its way into that the right way. Run to Camp 1 and drop off Item X for Quest A, at Camp 1 you pick up item Y for Quest B that has to get run back to Camp 2, and such. Stick a kill step in the middle of those runs and it can even be fun, especially if the script (The dialog script not the coding script) has a little fun with it.
  7. Elyssanda Bardbrain


    it was truly evil and would reset all of your updates to make you start all over in its first iteration.
    code-zero and Gialana like this.
  8. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    True or false, everyone I talk to thinks this is an artificial time sink to make the quests and progression seem more than they are.

    Without a druid or wizard, and guild hall (or self port) with port item to Ruins of Shadow Haven, it is a PITA. With them it isn't too bad.
    Tegila and Skuz like this.
  9. Lyyr Lorekeeper

    I love the wide range of hp that mobs have. Something I hope to see continue going forward.
    Evye and Paladin like this.
  10. Qimble Augur



    Yes, there are ways they could have made it even worse. Still one of the worst designed and programed quests I have seen in a long, long time. It surprising that in the year of our lord 2022 the idiot that designed this managed to find a way to make escort quests worse.
  11. Paladin Augur

    Good:
    • Multiple new mob models
    • 3 new zones, one of which is very impressive (Deepshade). For those that haven't seen it, I would describe it as Avatar like, but not really.
    • Average mob hp seems similar than last expansion. A welcome change over the drastic hp increase of the last 2 expansions.
    • New quest mechanic of following a NPC. Get too close and he ports you out of the zone. Some don't like it, but I give kudos to dev team for trying something new.
    • Missions have some interesting mechanics. I expect raids to be interesting as well.
    ----Agree!


    Items I did not like:

    • Mob difficulty has multiple issues. First, is they are too easy to tank. I know this comes from a raider perspective, but when my enc pet can tank with a healer merc backing them up in a T2 zone and health not drop below 90%,something is wrong. Some mobs are harder than others though. It seems like T2 mobs are about as difficult to tank/kill as last expansion. What this means is as people increase in power this expansion, it will become even easier to tank mobs in this expansion to a point where they are trivial.
    -----While I am also raid geared, I suspect the majority of Players are NOT raid geared. One must also consider that there were no new levels with this expansion. With those two considerations alone, I think they got it right. Blue Cons are tough, but doable for non-raiders and white cons start to test the mettle of non-raiders. However, the Named (aka Rare) MoB's have been nothing special.
    • Mobs have a massive range in hp. Some normal mobs like golems in shadowhaven have the hp of bosses. Others have very low hp (and less exp), but still drop TS items. The first seems like a bug, and the other just means you either ignore them or exploit them.
    -----I also noticed the PH MoB's are the ones that seem to have Named (Rare) level HP. But they are hard to ignore since they seem to be populous and mixed among the other MoB's.
    • Mobs aren't that interesting. ROS was a good example of mobs that would poison you, stun you, etc. TOL had shamans that would buff fellow mobs with DS, etc. Mobs in this expansion are pretty basic.
    -----I would agree with that for the Named (Rare) MoB's. They have not been a real challenge. However, keep in mind that these are group targets, not raid targets. In the recent past, it was all most like group target named (rares) were all most raid level events.
    • Collection drop rate that was already low since COV, seems worse in this expansion. That becomes an even bigger issue with mobs with double the hp. You eventually learn which mobs to focus on for collections, but even with that, the drop rate is poor.
    -----I have found the drop rate hit or miss. Some days they are far in-between, and other days they all most drop like candy.
    • New drops for TS items is a real negative. Mission chests have a lot of items that you don't need, and rarely an item you need for the new TS items. I get that they want to slow gear acquisition, but I don't like the new system. If you want to slow down gear acquisition, target the tradeskill side of things, not the purchaser side of things. As it stands now, I see little reason to make TS items, as my customers won't be able to use them. It also makes things very confusing to know what you need for each item.
    -----I am not a fan of the Otherworldy system. Primarily, I suppose, because I am raid geared. Having no group drops that upgrade raid gear from the expansion before is standard fare. However, the Augs are normally the single group content pursuit raiders can upgrade with... unfortunately, the Otherworldy drops related to Aug Crafting seem far too rare. I have seen only one so far, and I did not win the roll, LOL.
    • Lots of running back and forth in quests this expansion. It was not fun, and a game should be fun.
    -----I didn't have a big issue with this. It ties the entire expansion together better, rather than it being just a list of zones to check off your list. However, it is shocking at how many 'travel challenged' Players there are (even long time veteran Players) who can't seem to get from Point A to Point B on their own, and I am sure they also hate it. Boxers probably hate it as well.


    As for me...

    I LOVE the Tradeskill Depot. It freed up so much Bank Space on all toons across my account. Bag space will not be an issue for the foreseeable future. All those stacks across toons, a 20 stack here, a 1K stack there and so forth, are now in one huge stack in the TS Depot. I hear Players complaining about 500 DBC for 20 more slots, but they can get those 20 Slots free every month by claiming the free 500 DBC every month and using it to buy the 20-slots. I do believe in supporting revenue avenues for DB. If we don't support the game, there will be no game.

    I also like that there was a modicum of Faction this time (even it was just Achievement related). Faction is something they have ignored the last few expansions. It seems clear MoB's have some sort of inherited faction? Perhaps from of old Luclin? Players can and do have different faction with the same MoB's in NoS. Example, the Dwarves in Shadow Haven. Unfortunately, there are no faction hits for killing MoB's in NoS, so you would, theoretically, need to back track to grey-con Luclin to work on such faction issues for NoS. But really, the faction hits should happen in NoS. Faction should 100% be part of the process in new expansion creation, even if it's the same faction of yore. Just like they mirrored the Key Achievements in different Achievement (Expansion) categories, they should also be able to mirror faction on different Faction (Expansion) categories.

    The only real annoyance for me has been the Mean Streets mission. The Boss aggros from great distance, even around corners; it is impossible to drop aggro in that zone; there is no levitation there (even though it is allowed in the static zone); and if you wipe, there is little chance of recovery since you will be summoned and killed when you zone back in (better to drop the mission and start over).

    Overall, I have actually enjoyed and liked this expansion better than those of the recent past!
    Skuz and eqgamer like this.
  12. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    Only thing good to me this expansion is the ts depot. btw they need to make the ts stuff rarer to get much to common /sarcasim off
    Qimble likes this.
  13. Sindace Elder

    I thought NoS was the best expansion in some time. Don't really care for the otherworldly, but it's less of an issue on FV. Tradeskill depot rocks. New missions are more reasonably tuned for group geared players. New evolving cloak. After 30 some missions I haven't seen a TS aug part yet. Cloak is probably much too common, augs far too uncommon. Does that make a bad expansion? Nope.

    It's weird to hear from raid geared players that the mobs are too easy. You can feel free to toss on a set of group gear and see how you fare. Won't be as easy as you think.
    Skuz and Wayylon like this.
  14. Windance Augur

    I'm nearly finished with progression. I have not done any of the achievement or hunter, etc.

    The good:
    - Tradeskill depot is amazing. Thank you for listening to the community.
    - Deepshade looks amazing. Love the zone. Amazing what the dev/art team can do when they are not restricted to "remaking" nostalgia zones. ( Shar Vahl, Shadow Haven and Paludal Depths )
    - The partisan quests in Shar Vahl that give credit to the entire group.
    - I am looking forward to getting the new evolving cloak and clicks but haven't yet.

    The really bad:
    - The heroic mission "Mean Streets". *see multiple threads complaining about it*
    - Change generic "ores" to slot specific drops. Hate it.

    The meh bad:
    - The zones they had to remake are fairly bland.
    - The quest lines that are done 'solo' and require 7+ drops, that require a group to do and only drop 1x at a time.
    - The quest lines that have you running back and forth across paludal depths 5x times in a row.
    - The imbalanced AA requirements.


    I feel sorry for any new casters who have to get 60% more AA of a melee class to max out.
    Tegila, Skuz and Wyre Wintermute like this.
  15. Fian Augur

    A couple of more comments:
    • Evolving item is a nice addition. Pain to evolve, but ensures you are still playing the game long after you have bought all the new AA. I think adding an evolving item for non-level expansions is a good move.
    • About the difficulty of mobs. It appears that TOL T2 mobs are the same difficulty as NOS T2 mobs. Considering an increase of player power in each expansion, you either have to argue that TOL mobs were too hard, or that NOS is too easy. Personally, I felt that TOL was too easy, so NOS is really going to be easy once people get NOS gear.
  16. Nightops Augur


    NoS in general is too easy. From day 1, I've been able to 2h tank named T2 without a mitigation disc. Their hps are lite (unless its a golem mob), their output is limited and their abilities are none. Granted, ToL started every at 116, but it was still a challenge tanking at 120 if you were not watching closely.

    The rot loot cascade has returned. There is nothing more depressing then opening a mission chest and seeing 10 garbage items after the first week. Yes, the cloak is good and the rarity is correct imo. However seeing 2-4 ornaments, 1 spell, 1 T2 vis, 1 heroic aug, 1 weapon, 1-3 non-vis / augs / TS ore per chest is just stupid. Camp a named for hours to get an aug drop or just go pop a mission chest in a 5 min event for a few times week; take your pick. Outside of the fact that loot in general needs to be reimaged and made more class specific (should not have 3 items with only 100hp and +2 heroics difference); can we get back some of rarity on the other things. How about seeing chest drops as 0-1 ornament or spell (esp on non-lvl increase expansions), 0-1 T2 vis, 0-1 aug (type 5 &8) 1-2 on everything else.

    Tradeskill Depot is good imo. Sure, there can be some functional adjustments or improvements in the future, but its a good start. Lots of people are hoarders and this helps to organize and transfer to alts who are starting their TS journey.

    The Bad...again. Paludal and SH. The Good... 4 new zones. Does anyone actually run from SH to Shadeweavers? I know I return to the GGH and use one of the portals.

    Oh, and the bad again. AA rewards and AA purchases. Several classes need to have more AAs. Majority of bards I know are maxed on AAs already. The class simply doesn't have a lot of AA lines and for some reason couldn't get increases for their weak melee dps output. Other classes have very few beneficial lines. The other issue with AAs is that they were TOOOOO common of a reward. 16AA for Darklight merc task or rather 500aa in 2 hours. Mission chests again... There is no need to kill for AA because of all the rewards. I'm glad the ach reward AA was lowered because that too was out of hand.
  17. Zunnoab Augur

    You can't judge group content tanking in raid gear.
    Tegila, Skuz, Vumad and 6 others like this.
  18. Flatchy Court Jester

    Yes please if that is what you are doing, DONT. The whole expansion will be too easy for you , be happy with getting spanked on raid night.
  19. Nightops Augur

    Next time I run up against a T2 named, I'm going to take off 2500ac & 60k hps of armor. But I will use a 1h + shield (group shield) along with mitigation discs and tribute to see how it goes. I'm willing to bet its going to be a pretty equal tradeoff and the named will only live like 20 seconds longer.
  20. Zunnoab Augur

    Don't forget all your raid foci and clicky buffs in the AAs.

    Edit:
    And also keep in mind gear worse than the NoS gear, without perfect aug sets, because it would make no sense to tune vs. already-geared characters.
    Skuz likes this.