Revert Innate Melee Changes

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Madroc, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Baldur Augur

    You misread my post or didn't understand it, I know you don't get damage bonus in offhand.

    What I said is Adamantite Club is better than SoS IN MAINHAND. It's barely better, but it's better, it will out parse it. That relegates SoS to offhand, which is a better ratio than fists. Again, barely better, but it's better.

    Edit: SoS is better than bare hand ratio without epic and is not lore, so you can do 2 SoS if you want as well, but club/SoS will out parse SoS/SoS.
  2. Yawutokay Lorekeeper

  3. RandomStrategy Augur

    Yes, paladins were so out of whack when it came to their DPS compared to casters! I mean, they hit what, 150 dps.....160 dps? INSANITY!
  4. Fubar New Member

    Not that they're actually going to read this but....

    I started this game playing a paladin. I accepted my fate of never being able to do any dps but decided in SoF that I would trade sides on the mob and do something different. That's when I made a rogue. Now rogues were never really TOP dps...we have always been mildly broken and any dev attempt to increase that has resulted in just another button to push. I played through all the rest of the expansions besides RoS and one thing has always been accepted on live, casters are #1 dps.

    I thought it would be cool to play on a TLP now as a rogue to experience everything up to SoF to see what I missed and was really having fun, especially seeing melee actually able to compete with people who can sit in one spot and spam two buttons. It was one of those "finally" moments seeing melee putting out some good numbers but now this?

    Now instead of fixing ONE class *cough* monks *cough* who everyone knows are broken, you implement a blanket nerf of ALL melee classes. Consequently, not only do casters now get the second half of the game guaranteed, at a minimum they get to COMPETE with melee in the first half as well. I find this extremely frustrating since apparently it is impossible for you yahoos to come up with a fix to balance people instead of knee-jerk reactions like this. It, makes, no, sense.
    Rhodz likes this.
  5. Rhodz Augur

    Outside of its therapeutic benefits, posting on the forums is about as effective as yelling out your window to get the attn of devs on these matters.
    For that matter nothing is effective
  6. HoodenShuklak Augur

    How is this a knee jerk change? Motm was rushed. They flat out mentioned that stuff like this well deserved nerf is needed to bring some semblance of a thoughtful change in order to undo the knee jerk fix that was motm.

    Simply put, melee on tlp was allowed to play on steroids for a while. But now theyre gonna start testing.

    Interclass balance is an entirely different matter altogether.
  7. Machentoo Augur

    There is a whole lot that is just off in your post. I'll comment on a few points.

    First, monks are "broken" compared to other melee only a few expansions early on. Right now on Phinigel, in TSS, monks only have a very slight edge on Rogues on burn fights lasting 3 minutes or less. Anything over that and our rogues beat the monks. Monks aren't at all broken currently, and haven't been since before PoP.

    As for the second half comment, you realize that this change included a BOOST to melee dps at 85+ right? Melees are going to be crushing the parses SOD onward even worse than they are now. As it stands right now, melees are still winning most of our parses, with wizards sneaking in ahead on short burns when they blow everything including staunch. Melees will be just fine 80+.
  8. Goodkitty Augur

    Don't revert all melee. Just revert beastlords!
  9. malaki Augur

    Nope, Wizards and Mages should just sit in the corner and collect rot loots from 65-80, it's fine.
  10. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Casters win from Classic->PoP (minus oddities like Sky/Ventani/Zonewide parse lul) then melee win from PoP->Live with the occasional odd fight where casters just have some advantage over melee.

    PoP AAs and weapon ratios are way bigger for melee than any focus upgrades casters get, it's not even close, and when you get access to Fero/Cleave in GoD the gap just widens that much more and never really closes.

    This nerf didn't do anything to jeopardize melee dps place in the game, it made them a bit worse from 1-85 but they are still going to rule the game from 65+.
    Ryak and snailish like this.
  11. Risiko Augur

    While I am not against the change to melee DPS, I have to ask why you think nerfing one class suddenly makes another class not be trash?

    The DPS of the casters did not improve, so if they were trash before, they are still trash. The amount of damage required to kill a mob in that level range did not change, and the DPS of the casters in that range did not change. Therefore, the casters stayed exactly the same.
  12. malaki Augur

    Because things are relative? If your only job on a raid is to do damage and you're being doubled up by melee dps it's an issue. And if those same raid mobs are probably dieing way faster than intended even with much less than a full raid then this change puts things more in line. Also, the melee changes also buff melee later on when casters were out of line ahead of the curve.

    Or do you feel that melee dps should do massively more dps than a wizard/mage/necro? Or that a non tanking warrior or SK should be doing similar dps to a wizard in that level range?
  13. Risiko Augur

    I believe the change was the right thing to do. I just don't agree that casters were "trash" before.
  14. Yawutokay Lorekeeper

    Youre a self proclaimed forum warrior, who has many times stated you havent even hit max level on these TLPs, and you're arguing with malaki who routinely min/maxes his wizard and occasionally tops parses.

    Not sure who to believe =p
  15. Risiko Augur


    I should probably just ignore this post, but what ever.

    1. Never in the history of these forums have I ever stated that I am a forum warrior. That's straight up hilarious. If you take the time to go look at my forum history, you will see that I discuss both for and against SoE/DBG changes and design ideas. That's because I look at every discussion individually rather than be a "forum warrior" that simply chooses a side and dawns the armor for a long battle. Seriously. You are so off the mark here, it's ... wow... just wow.
    2. Secondly, if you actually knew me or even read half of my posts over the past decade+, you would know that I am an altaholic that has played on every single TLP server except Lockjaw since the inception of TLP servers. During that time, I have maxed levels in era on nearly all of them up through Shadows of Luclin. I have raided everything in era from classic through Planes of Power on TLP. So, yeah. You're wrong again.
    3. Finally, as for arguing with Malaki, as if there's some great queue you have to get in to have the distinct honor to some day get to speak with said person lol, I wasn't arguing. I was discussing the topic. There is a difference. Malaki said that "casters are trash". I disagree with that sentiment. I do agree that melee are over powered though, as I stated. I think you might not understand the difference between having a discussion and arguing.
    That all being said, I do not harbor any ill will towards you for your blatant personal attacks on my character. I bid you a good day sir.
  16. Yawutokay Lorekeeper

    Good day to you sir.
  17. axedat New Member

    So...are we nerfing bellow yet? Or Is that after the necro dot revamp? I agree this change was necessary. Parses are more competitive on phinny but monks are still unquestioned no.1 instead of broad swathes for entire archetype maybe that should be looked at? Theyve ruled parses for how many xpacs now on phin? All this did was make wizards competitive with all other melee except monks.

    It sucks to see a ranger or rogue hit ostensibly for monk dps.
  18. Snomie Elder

    Well there's the problem. Risiko hasn't played TLP beyond PoP. Casters weren't in that bad a spot until after all the melee got their PoP gear, then it just snowballed into silly levels from GoD+.

    If you never played past PoP you wouldn't have experienced the expansions where afk autoattack alts in bad gear were able to double bis min/maxing caster dps. Of course this doesn't apply to that one wizard on Phinny (snomie I think he's called?) who is known to be amazing and constantly 1st on every parse, but he's the exception due to insanely high skill.
  19. malaki Augur

    Maybe calling casters trash is overly harsh. Maybe I should have said classes that are very poor choices to fulfill their role in a raid or group setting. Also, I have not been wizarding since DoN or so and this is partly the reason, although certainly not all of the reason.
  20. malaki Augur

    1. Casters are fine through the early stages of PoP. It's once people are geared through PoP and past where the gap becomes increasingly large.

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