Revert Innate Melee Changes

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Madroc, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. taliefer Augur


    thats not how agro works. you lost 0 swing agro from the innate aa nerf.
    Chatoyan likes this.
  2. Discord Ocean of Tears Conservationist

    Why is there a tank crying about dps nerf here? Are there any bards thatd like to add in at this rate?
  3. doah Augur

    Warriors if played right could get pretty high in the parses.
  4. Shaoqiang Journeyman

    Unfortunately, what seems to be happening here is the devs are listening to a small group of very vocal P99 tryhards who basically want to turn this game into another p99. These nerfs are incredibly ill-advised, folks.
    Rhodz and Sultan like this.
  5. Ryak Augur

    I'm not going to get into an argument here, but really? Melee were overtuned as hell between GoD and TSS and weren't showing any signs of letting up any time soon. This has been parsed as an effective 7% melee dps reduction, which isn't even that drastic.

    I can say for sure as a necromancer i'll go from being destroyed in dps by all melee dps, tanks, bards, and other casters to being destroyed by all melee dps (slightly less), maybe not tanks (hopefully), definitely still bards and other casters, though.
    snailish likes this.
  6. malaki Augur

    So they could have just increased caster dps across the board by like 20 percent or something, then increased mob hp by like 10 percent which would have a similar overall impact and is likely more work and probably results in a similar amount of crying. Or we can just continue to have eras where a full burn wizard is doing less than half the damage of a monk.
  7. Ryak Augur

    Ive definitely seen people make the correct argument that overall dps is way too high in TSS as it is. Nerfing melees has the same relative effect as buffing casters, but moves overall dps in the right direction.

    too many fights are trivialized by burning the crap out of it and ignoring or barely satisfying the mechanics. Honestly, its still probably going to be that way even after the nerf, but at least we moved in the right direction.
  8. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    So you want them to put more work into changes which would have the same impact on the game? Sounds like you are more focused on raw numbers then actual impact to the game.
  9. taliefer Augur


    the devs arent listening to anyone at all, as there was no communication about this before it went to test and live. what you are seeing is just some players realize that this innate melee AA was super OP for early EQ and see why it was nerfed. even in its nerfed form its a huge boost.

    im not one that wants TLPs turned in to p99 clones, but this particular change isnt a big deal at all
    snailish likes this.
  10. snailish Augur

    It's not about wizards, but that could be a good discussion:

    Ignoring goofy mechanics, but imagining a guild with a few tanks, enough healers and all their DPS from wizards how does such a guild stack up era by era?

    Move the silly question to group play... Tank + healer + 4 wizards. Is there an era they are underpowered to defeat the typical group content?

    Note: not underpowered vs. that group or raid being all monks or whatever. Underpowered vs. the way the content is tuned itself.

    Note 2: if the answer is yes for any era, well then maybe wizards need a boost specific to that era (i.e., a specific nuke increased by a %) But it is hard to give that boost with all the other overpowering that presently impacts melee and casters on early eras. Should kind of tone that down first?
  11. Accipiter Old Timer


    <crickets chirp>
  12. Bolten_DA Augur

    I wonder why the change now? I do not think that the purpose of this change was to make raid content harder. I think it would have been much easier to just beef up the bosses. I'm not going to pretend I know anything about programming so maybe I am wrong. I believe this is the first of nerfs to come. I think the goal behind this is to slow exp down. Based on the weekly "my idea for a new sever" people are pushing for higher exp. I dont think that Daybreak will mess around with another server with Coirnav exp. One way to balance this is to give the higher exp, but decrease the dps naturally slowing the exp gained.

    I personally can deal with the low exp and I would like to see more of a challenge.
  13. Dythan Ban Lev in Plane of Fire guy

    Because they finally had time and this was at the top of the to do list. Next month will be the changes that were in the #2 slot. Somewhere at DBG there is a white board with the next year's goals on it, and someday they will get to disabling lev in Fire, to stop the exploitation of zone geometry.
  14. RandomStrategy Augur



    Well, really, all you need to do is just power level someone up to 43-44 and then group them with an enchanter in fire, let the pet destroy mobs and get insane exp (literally, Jopal pets chew through mobs like nobody's business).
  15. Coppercoz Augur

    I just hope raid parses weren’t the genesis of the change. Melee dps in raids is really on the shoulders of multiple classes; shaman, Beastlord, and bard for short duration stuff primarily. As a rogue, my dps can easily be 30-40 percent lower dependent solely on group makeup in raid (I am well beyond begging for short buffs outside of group...they know their class abilities.)

    Casters are not nearly so impacted by adps. All these raid resources are not usually available in groups for melee. DPS Casters tend to be right on par with me in groups before the change unless group was ideal for me. I will admit 2h warriors were generating about the same dps in groups while tanking.

    I think monks pretty much owned pop up to tss due to increased adps abilities plus available weapon ratios in these eras. The irony is I think TSS has leveled most of the dps out (our wiz do just fine), with the exception of one notable class, which makes the decision to include up to 85 in this nerf odd.

    So, when is it a matter of adps vs class ability? Adps classes want to feel useful and see their contribution too.
  16. Sultan Elder


    Its worse for casters, if they get resisted, 0 damage for 6 or more seconds until they get another spell off + global cool down.

    If a Monk misses, they hit in another second that could equal a triple or double attack.

    The impact of a resisted spell far outweighs a mob being missed/dodged.
  17. Ryak Augur


    I have one guess as to which class is the one who shall not be named... :p
  18. Aegir Augur

    It's really not that significant on Phinigel. I'm kinda indifferent to it. + The only raid guilds that are hit by it, are those who are maxing it out extremely hard. The rest of us humans can just afk 10% less and focus 10% more and we're back at our old OP melee DPS!
  19. Machentoo Augur


    The adps has been there since well before these innate aa's were added. Melees saw the same sort of increases on the last TLP's, without the innate aa's. Casters were a little closer on the parses but basically melee rained supreme from PoP till about SOF. This change won't make much difference in that regard--casters will be a little closer again, but melees will still be on top in those eras.

    ADPS contribution hasn't suddenly dropped any as a result of this.

    Also going forward ADPS becomes just as important for casters as it is for melee. Just takes a few more expansions to get there for casters.
  20. Machentoo Augur


    Lol. If you are afk more than 10% of the time to start with, that's pretty close to my threshold to kick you out and find someone else who actually wants to play anyway!
    Iyacc likes this.