Revert Innate Melee Changes

Casters can't do their full potential in PoP due to aggro problems, and even those fights they can, they are still on par with melee, not trouncing them like melee do to them afterward.

Y'all have fun in vex thall now

Fortunately we don't need anything close to optimal raids to beat content these days, or you'd see guilds recruiting for exactly this mold.

That and basically all GoD content can be beaten without much effort with 35 or 40 characters in time gear (you get 6 months to gear up in PoP), so anything past that is gravy.

No one thinks Lady Nevederia is fun. Or ToV in general, it’s an awful raid zone with a bunch of boring tank and spank fights.

I’d really love to see them implement the Ring of Vulak event in time for Coirnav’s Velious Launch. Vulak is such an underwhelming fight by himself. You really need an epic ring event to make you earn his loot. Death adds, GFlux proccing drakes, mana refills, splitting mobs, random waves. It’s a great event and it’s a shame ToV is let down by having some boring faceroll dragon at the end of it.

Don't know why everyone gets hung up on the ring of Vulak. It wasn't the original form of Vulak--or even available in era during Velious. It was tuned more for Luclin/Pop and would be pretty rough on velious only characters.

Casters need a buff, so melee gets nerfed? This change isn't going to do anything cept piss people off. People spent years on their melee characters, this change isn't going to make them make casters instead.

Looks like I'll be canceling my accounts sooner rather than later.

Can I have your stuff?

We only have two kills to measure with since the patch. But I also linked the logs from our last 3 kills of each. It definitely looks like Melee took a bit, Wizards are probably the new kings on short fights like these, but I don't see them holding out long term on longer fightings. I'll post more when we have more to post.

I changed the name of the players to their class so it was easier to see who's who.

Yes I know the parses are not all complete, this is all I was able to capture. If i died or got feared I understand that skews it. I'll post more info as I get it.




Trakanon Before Changes

/GU Trakanon in 93s, 121k @1305sdps --- Monk0 7k@76sdps (84dps in 84s) [5.81%] --- Enchanter + pets 7k@76sdps (104dps in 68s) [5.8%] --- Wizard1 6k@68sdps (77dps in 82s) [5.23%] --- Rogue1 6k@68sdps (75dps in 84s) [5.18%] --- ShadowKnight7 6k@66sdps (75dps in 82s) [5.05%] --- Enchanter Pet 6k@65sdps (86dps in 70s) [4.95%] --- ShadowKnight3 6k@63sdps (75dps in 79s) [4.86%] --- Wizard2 5k@53sdps (60dps in 82s) [4.07%] --- Druid3 5k@50sdps (85dps in 55s) [3.85%] --- Wizard3 5k@50sdps (64dps in 73s) [3.85%]

/GU Trakanon in 119s, 110k @925sdps --- Enchanter + pets 17k@141sdps (181dps in 93s) [15.29%] --- Monk2 8k@64sdps (125dps in 61s) [6.9%] --- ShadowKnight3 6k@48sdps (92dps in 63s) [5.24%] --- Necro6 6k@47sdps (59dps in 95s) [5.14%] --- Rogue9 5k@45sdps (74dps in 73s) [4.91%] --- Monk5 5k@45sdps (96dps in 56s) [4.91%] --- Wizard2 5k@45sdps (58dps in 93s) [4.87%] --- Enchanter + pets 5k@45sdps (81dps in 66s) [4.84%] --- Rogue10 5k@40sdps (53dps in 90s) [4.34%] --- Rogue2 5k@39sdps (50dps in 94s) [4.25%]

/GU Trakanon in 242s, 146k @605sdps --- Enchanters + pets 19k@80sdps (97dps in 201s) [13.28%] --- Monk2 11k@45sdps (45dps in 241s) [7.4%] --- Monk12 10k@43sdps (52dps in 200s) [7.05%] --- Monk1 9k@37sdps (45dps in 198s) [6.09%] --- Druid2 9k@37sdps (45dps in 199s) [6.05%] --- Rogue1 9k@36sdps (43dps in 202s) [5.91%] --- Wizard2 8k@35sdps (42dps in 198s) [5.74%] --- Necro5 8k@34sdps (43dps in 188s) [5.56%] --- Monk5 8k@33sdps (41dps in 195s) [5.5%] --- Ranger2 7k@31sdps (40dps in 184s) [5.08%]

Trakanon After Changes

/GU Trakanon in 171s, 137k @801sdps --- Enchanters + pets 15k@89sdps (138dps in 111s) [11.14%] --- Wizard2 8k@46sdps (64dps in 122s) [5.72%] --- Wizard3 8k@46sdps (86dps in 91s) [5.71%] --- Rogue1 8k@44sdps (59dps in 127s) [5.51%] --- Enchanter Pets 7k@43sdps (58dps in 128s) [5.42%] --- Wizard1 7k@41sdps (55dps in 125s) [5.06%] --- Monk2 6k@37sdps (53dps in 119s) [4.6%] --- Vicious 6k@36sdps (41dps in 152s) [4.5%] --- Wizard86k@35sdps (74dps in 80s) [4.31%] --- Monk1 6k@34sdps (54dps in 107s) [ ...




Severilous Before Changes

/GU Severilous in 155s, 82k @531sdps --- Monk1 8k@53sdps (60dps in 136s) [9.96%] --- Monk7 7k@43sdps (50dps in 132s) [8.08%] --- Wizard2 6k@42sdps (47dps in 138s) [7.83%] --- Necro1 6k@41sdps (48dps in 133s) [7.78%] --- Rogue10 6k@38sdps (47dps in 123s) [7.08%] --- Monk5 6k@37sdps (43dps in 136s) [7.06%] --- Wizard1 5k@31sdps (40dps in 118s) [5.8%] --- Wizard3 5k@30sdps (55dps in 85s) [5.73%] --- Ranger2 4k@25sdps (28dps in 139s) [4.77%] --- Ranger1 4k@25sdps (28dps in 137s) [4.68%]

/GU Severilous in 195s, 66k @337sdps --- Monk6 5k@28sdps (32dps in 170s) [8.24%] --- Necro2 5k@26sdps (31dps in 166s) [7.85%] --- ShadowKnight3 5k@25sdps (28dps in 171s) [7.33%] --- Monk5 4k@21sdps (27dps in 155s) [6.35%] --- Rogue2 4k@19sdps (22dps in 168s) [5.67%] --- ShadowKnight24k@19sdps (22dps in 164s) [5.6%] --- Ranger1 3k@17sdps (20dps in 169s) [5.1%] --- Wizard2 3k@17sdps (40dps in 82s) [4.97%] --- Ranger2 3k@17sdps (19dps in 171s) [4.93%] --- ShadowKnight4 3k@16sdps (19dps in 166s) [4.89%]

/GU Severilous in 210s, 105k @499sdps --- Rogue1 14k@65sdps (67dps in 204s) [12.97%] --- Wizard1 12k@56sdps (59dps in 201s) [11.24%] --- Rogue2 11k@50sdps (53dps in 201s) [10.1%] --- Wizard2 10k@47sdps (49dps in 203s) [9.46%] --- Ranger1 8k@39sdps (41dps in 199s) [7.77%] --- Necro1 6k@29sdps (34dps in 176s) [5.75%] --- Wizard4 6k@28sdps (52dps in 111s) [5.56%] --- Rogue4 5k@25sdps (26dps in 206s) [5.1%] --- Monk4 5k@25sdps (26dps in 203s) [5.04%] --- Vicious 5k@22sdps (23dps in 205s) [4.42%]

Severilous After Changes

/GU Severilous in 134s, 102k @764sdps --- Wizard1 7k@54sdps (59dps in 123s) [7.1%] --- Necro1 7k@53sdps (61dps in 116s) [6.96%] --- Wizard2 7k@49sdps (59dps in 112s) [6.4%] --- Monk1 6k@48sdps (52dps in 125s) [6.29%] --- Wizard3 6k@48sdps (62dps in 104s) [6.26%] --- Monk2 6k@47sdps (48dps in 130s) [6.14%] --- ShadowKnight1 6k@45sdps (57dps in 106s) [5.88%] --- Necro2 6k@42sdps (49dps in 115s) [5.48%] --- Rogue1 5k@40sdps (49dps in 109s) [5.21%] --- Ranger1 5k@35sdps (43dps in 109s) [4.62%]

Easykillevequest exists in fine form on live servers for the level 1-75 run (the level range progression servers thus far have dwindled away in, Phinny looks primed to surpass that with robust population).

This change to melee DPS does not bring melee DPS back to what it actually was in classic-Kunark-Velious-???. I actually don't believe progression should be as-was. There is a good case that melee (some more than others) was historically underpowered.

However, to not acknowledge that even as well-tuned as the current progression is (compared to Combine/Sleeper) that we are making a bit of a joke of the content is kind of misleading. Melee dps turned down a bit is only a small step in correcting the problem of content not being near the challenge it was supposed to be in era.

This applies more to the 40+ game, it's not about tuning Crushbone to be a level 8-16 zone that a level 5 doesn't dare go into.

Nerf me, i nerf your paycheck, later nerds

On to a game that knows how to balance with buffs instead of nerfs. Casters could be something cool if they got buffed - now everyone is lame, and casters are still underpowered.

Well done, said no one.

Bye lisa.

Not true! I said well done.

RIP Monks

It just gets funnier with every patch.

So...on phinny, We're about to enter TBS, then 2 expansions...and melee get a DPS buff?...uh...why bother with this?...

Melee dps has always been OP. This nerf doesnt change anything in a macroscopic view, but it's definitely needed.

If anything, monks needed to be nerfed relative to rogues as well throughout Classic to Velious.

Phinny isn't the only tlp?

Buffing caster's would just make the content even more trivial than it already is on tlp's. The melee nerf was needed.

It's worth mentioning that Agnarr got their HOT potions back, which is indisputably more imbalancing than a ~14% melee nerf. For most fights in POP, casters don't even use all their mana. So there was a lot of untapped potential already sitting in yours and other's raids.

But really, HOT potions more than make up for this nerf.