Returning Cleric

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Halfhigh, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. Halfhigh New Member


    I've recently come back to the game but have lost track of which spells to use in a group for my Cleric.

    He's currently level 87 and the spells are a bit of a mess, I could really use some examples of a good spell lineup, something like:
    Gem 1 ______
    Gem 2 ______

    Which spells would you group together for a good spell rotation. All quick heals together maybe? I don't know, I've lost track of things.

    Do you start out with a promised heal?

    All help is appreciated.
  2. Pano Augur

    Standard multibind, which is relatively efficient (I can heal for hours without medding but I am also raid geared). I also don't remember much of the mid 80s as this was a decade or so ago. What I'm currently using:
    1. Remedy (lvl 86)
    2. Remedy (lvl 81)
    3. Intervention (lvl 88)
    4. Renewal (can use Intervention, it was to maximize alliance procs before triple remedies and never changed it) (lvl 85)
    5. Intervention (lvl 83)
    6. Undying Life (You'll get this later, but it takes quite a bit of mana so you can take it in and out of rotation depending on what's happening to the group)
    7. Syllable (lvl 98)
    8. Word of Greater R... (lvl 105)
    9. Promised (becomes more useful when you get the Promised Interposition AA)
    I am not a big believer in HoT in group because that 11k heal every 6 seconds on a tank is less than most mobs do per second. At your level, it might be more helpful since mobs don't do as much damage as lvl 115. When you get the AA, Promised Interposition actual does more HP/s than any of our HoT (15s recast, can crit for 130k at max rank).

    As for healing, if you are to use Promise, I would not start with that because in the first few seconds, you have a mob that is not debuffed. I'd start with remedies, once it's slowed, PR and then keep on going. You can do a multibind with the spells from 1 to 5 and for group heal, you should have Word of Awakening instead of the 2 listed. This is going to allow you to chain group heal as I think this does not have a recast timer.

    The bind for the single target heal should be done in order, and you can probably add light at the end there because you may get a gap in healing depending on the focus you have. It'd basically look like: Remedy - Remedy - Intervention - Remedy - Remedy - Renewal - Remedy - Remedy - Intervention - Remedy - Remedy - Light and then it'd loop.

    Once you get both group heals, spamming syllable and word of greater r together is more efficient than using the other word spell. For some reason, our better Word has a lower cast time than the other version.

    There's more to healing, but this is the very basic.
  3. Clarisa Augur

    (Note: Pano covered a lot of this but since I spent a bit of time putting it together and there are some different views on certain things, I will post it anyway :p)

    You're in a bit of an awkward spot when it comes to cleric healing, as that's when we got our first Intervention (heal to target, nuke to target's target) and Contravention (nuke to target, heal to target's target) spells, marking the beginning of the end of our reliance on the Light line of heals. You will want to prioritize the "Improved Intervention/Contravention" AA lines as you level up to be sure that you're reducing the recast timers on these, but you won't have enough of them to cast them in a sequence without dealing with the recast timers for quite a few levels. These heals/nukes have a fixed 1.5 sec cast time, along with better heal values than Light (Contraventions have a reduced heal and a stronger nuke) but have the downside of a 30 sec. recast and a slightly higher mana cost. That recast will come down as you improve the aforementioned AA lines, though, and you will eventually gain enough of them to cast them in a sequence. You do have to learn how to use them, however, especially in the case of Interventions. It is not safe, for instance, to cast them on a tank when he is targeting mobs or drawing them to him to be mezzed or rooted, as the nuke will either draw aggro to you or mess up crowd control attempts. That should not make you afraid to use them, though, as most of the time a tank will be fighting the mob he has targeted, and there is really no chance of you getting aggro from the rather small amount of damage the nuke does if the tank is doing anything beyond auto-attacking. Contraventions are easier to use because you're nuking the mob directly but the downside of those is that they only heal the active target of the mob. This also means you can't really use them to heal other people besides the tank unless they draw aggro from him.

    You're also missing what will become our core heal, "New" Remedy. Though you do have a Remedy, it has the old 1.75 sec cast time, which is slightly faster than the cast time of the Light line, but not really enough to make it worth casting unless the small heal it offers is all your target needs (probably only for casters with not much HP). You will need to reach 95 to get the first heal in the "New" Remedy line, Graceful Remedy, which will have a 0.5 sec cast time. Then at 101 you will get the second heal in that line, Spiritual Remedy, and with 2 Remedies and a bunch of Interventions, you will be able to use a heal lineup that is more current and along the lines of the guide I wrote here:

    To completely follow that guide, you will need 110, but it should hopefully give you an idea of the kind of sequences you will eventually want to use and the thinking behind it.

    You do have to heal with what you have until you get there, though, so I think at your level you're probably going to want to stick with Light (which will eventually disappear entirely from lineups for reasons explained in that post) while using as many Interventions/Contraventions as you can. You can also use the "Glorious" line of nukes, beginning with Glorious Denunciation at 84, to give yourself a chance to proc Healing Twincast, which will twincast your next 2 heals. So you would nuke, then chain Intervention 1 followed by Intervention 2, then nuke again and repeat with Contraventions, using Light to cover a target when those are down. You can also toss in Promised heals and group Elixirs either before the tank engages the target or when there is a window (a time when the tank is not in dire need of a heal) to cast them while healing. You can force a window by using abilities/items you will gain as you level up, as well. If you think of healing as a sequence of spells cast endlessly (Heal -> Heal -> Heal) the arrow in between each is the global recast timer, a brief 1.5-1.8 sec period of time where spells cannot be cast but abilities and item-based heals can. So if I cast something that is not a direct heal in a sequence like (Heal -> Promised -> Heal), during the "arrow"/global recast timer after Promised, I can cast Burst of Life, an instant-cast AA heal, that will provide some of the missed healing that target would have gotten if I had cast a Heal instead. Though you do want to save some of these abilities for emergencies, like when a tank needs an extra heal after a spell-based heal to cover massive amounts of damage, eventually you will gain enough of them that you can afford to use them like this.

    Renewals, which are a bit faster than Light after spell haste and heal for more while providing a cure to the target, are also an option, but I don't think they gain a much better heal than Light until later levels, and their mana cost might not make them viable casting in a sequence. Interventions are definitely the better option unless you're in a situation where the nuke will cause problems.

    Hopefully this gives you some ideas but I guess the TLDR version is that healing will change a lot as you level from this point and Light is still a decent option until you gain enough Interventions/Contraventions (and Renewals at later levels) and New Remedies to replace it
  4. Halfhigh New Member

    Many thanks for the help - I'll be testing this out later today.
    Great views from both of you, it clears things up so much for me now I know where to start.

    I've read both posts about 3 times each now. I'm sure I'll be reading them more.
    Much appreciated.
  5. Gundolin Augur

    My very basic rule of thumb that may help as you level. Also by posting general recommendation, I often get helpful --to me-- corrections.

    Anyway, these can all be done by Right clicking on the spell gems in order and select the following;

    1) The highest level Heal; Quick Heal: you have that is listed as a Remedy.
    2) The second highest level Heal: Quick Heal; you have that is listed as a Remedy.
    3) Heal: heal - Undying life when you have access to it at 103. Before then possibly the highest level Renewal you have access to.
    4) For grouping I like the Highest level intervention you have that is listed under Heal, Miscellaneous.
    5) For grouping I like the Second level intervention you have that is listed under Heal, Miscellaneous.
    6) Varies note if you are multi binding 1-5 you will have times that all 5 are grayed out, though so you will either need to add another quick heal here or something to plug that gap. Often I end up slipping in group heals to cover that gap or adding a 'ward' here. The wards are located under miscellaneous, and then under melee guard. They are really more powerful than heals, as a general rule they will absorb more damage than a heal will cover. But a lot of better healers prefer to use them outside of their multi binds.
    7) The highest ranked syllable - purple group heal that you have.
    8) The highest ranked Greater Word - purple group heal that you have.

    Once you get comfortable switching between targets and healing its a lot of fun to increase your DPS with the Glorious line (Direct Damage, Magic) Followed by Double Contravention spells (Heals, Miscellaneous). But it takes a little practice getting used to switching between targets and making certain your contravention spell is hitting the mob that is targeted on where your heal needs to land. Very easy to do when you have an experienced tank, but less so when you have a less experienced group with agro bouncing all over the place.

    Good luck and enjoy. :)
  6. Nylrem Augur

    Swapping targets/spells is actually very easy...

    I'll attempt to describe a very basic setup, change as you wish, of course.

    I'd also like to assume you're at least level 88 by now, and not talking about raiding, but strictly group play... If not 88, just change spells as necessary (mainly, won't have a second intervention to work with, and using older Light).

    On hotbar 1, change first 7 buttons to keypress "1" in options, keys tab. And all rest after that to nothing, for now (ESC) key to blank out.

    (servers are down right now, and I'm too lazy to look stuff up, alt activate numbers, etc, so sub in whatever numbers needed)

    Make a social:
    /assist (MA name)
    /alt act (whatever yaulp # is)
    /alt act (Celestial hammer #)
    /alt act (Battle Frenzy #)
    /alt act (Divine Avatar #)

    Put this social as your first button, on hotbar 1.

    Next, DPS buttons should be (for now, change as you learn/level up):

    Button 2: Glorious Denunciation
    Button 3: Holy Contravention
    Button 4: Unwavering Hammer of Zeal
    Button 5: Rebuke
    Button 6: Awecrash
    Button 7: Chromassail

    Hotbar 2, set first 6 keys to keybind "2", and blank out the rest

    Button 1:

    HEAL 1 social:
    /alt act (Burst of Life #)
    /alt act (Flurry of Life #)
    /alt act (focused celestial regen#)
    /alt act (Beacon of Life #)
    /alt act (Healing Frenzy #)

    Button 2: Earnest Remedy
    Button 3: Celestial Intervention
    Button 4: Holy Intervention
    Button 5: Frenetic Renewal
    Button 6: Earnest Light

    Personally, I put my other activated stuff, AA, clickies, etc, that I want more control over, the last few buttons in each respective hotbar… Activated DPS stuff, ITC, etc, in hotbar 1, and activated heal stuff in hotbar 2, at the ends.

    So now, when the mob is in camp, just spam "1" over and over again (I highly recommend a gaming keyboard, gaming mouse, or a free macro program, like macro gamer to do this) while meleeing the mob. It will nuke, nuke/heal, and stun the mob while you melee. Whatever spells you have in hotbar 1, in the order of the gems, when available, will be used, in the button order you have set up. So, put your 'best' spells first, to be recast as soon as they become available.

    When you need to heal someone, just target them with mouse, function key, or whatever is fastest for you, and spam "2". This will send your 'best' heal spell/AA available to them, in the order they are available on your hotbar.

    When no longer need to heal someone, just start spamming "1" again. This will assist the MA, and begin your nuking order, with whatever the 'best' DPS spell available is.

    In a decent group, in group content, you shouldn't have to heal very often, especially after get a couple more contraventions.

    What this attempts to do is maximize DPS (what little clerics have) when healing not needed. Something very few clerics do well.

    You can set up hotbar 3 in a similar fashion, for group heals. Put Divine Arb AA, epic click, Celestial Regen, Beacon of Life in social, then Syllable, then Word, for group heals.

    Personally, until get the Anticipated AA for promised heals, the only time I'd use promised is maybe on puller, if split pulling, throw on them before they take off. Promised does not create agro for you, so if they're off pulling, FD'd, whatever, and need a heal, promised can give them a heal if a pull goes awry, without the whole bunch agroing you when they FD/fade. Once do get Anticipated Interposition (think that's the AA name), though... ya, promised is the single best buff (don't think of it as a heal, it's the buff and Anticipated Interposition's heals that are sweet) we get for a MT :)

    Depending on the type of group you're in, depends on how much you'll be using DPS spam key, or heal spam key. Generally, the better the group, the more you'll use DPS, the worse, more heals are needed.

    Once get a little higher, and the hastened intervention AA, you'll be able to do Remedy > intervention > intervention > FR > FR and totally drop Light. Then when get a second Remedy and promised becomes good with anticipated AA, can do Remedy > Promised > Intervention > Remedy > Intervention > Intervention or some variation thereof.

    The twincast nukes are also not on same timer, so eventually, can use twincast > contra > contra > twincast > contra as your DPS spell weave at higher levels. Or change, if DPSing undead, almost never heal, etc. Twincast nuke is usually best DPS vs live mobs, compared to other nukes, but often newer magic or chromatic are better than older twincast nuke, and undead DoT (does not stack with older versions of itself) and undead nukes are better than either, generally.
  7. Zepplinn Lorekeeper

    Pano, much respect. Would you be willing to list your current lvl 115 raid setup and macros ?
  8. Fullwin Journeyman

    I'll chime in with my typical 115 raid spellset, since there's a lot of different ways people do this:
    1 - Divine Intermediation (I always have DI up on raids)
    2 - Sincere Remedy
    3 - Merciful Remedy (I always have two best remedies up... I've heard of people using three but I don't think that's ideal)
    4 - Dire Renewal or Sincere Intervention (depending on whether event mechanics discourage cures, or risk of waking mezzed adds, or just my preference given who I'm healing and what's going on)
    5 - Furial Renewal or Merciful Intervention
    6 - Fervid Renewal or Mystical Intervention (I find it's simpler to have either all 3 FRs or all 3 Interventions but nothing wrong with dropping third of one type for highest of the other)
    7 - Syllable of Soothing (or other "Word of" group heal as you prefer, but with maxed Templar's Synergy I prefer this one for most events)
    8 - Dissident Blessing (a great quick group heal though I use it as much for the HP boost buff to tanks)
    9 - Ward of Righteousness
    10 - Restoring Splash (every once in a while I'll replace this with Word of Greater Replenishment or if I need Eradicate Curse or Expurgated Blood or Extricate Corruption or whatever, when special curing may be needed)
    11 - Issuance of Sincerity (I'll sometimes switch this one out but it's marginally useful when raid is gathered in range)
    12 - Elixir of Transcendence or Sincere Elixir (which one is loaded at any given time depends on status of my Tranquil Blessings or MGB, and what I'm planning to do with it... have to know whether other priests are covering the raid, your group, or your tank)
    13 - my utility spell slot (Shining Aegis or Righteousness/Symbol most often, when nothing special is needed otherwise)

    My preferred single-target healing cycle when nothing special is going on, is Dire Renewal-Sincere Remedy-Furial Renewal-Sincere Remedy-Fervid Renewal-Sincere Remedy.
    If I'm using three Interventions then the cycle might be Sincere Intervention-Sincere Remedy-Merciful Remedy-Merciful Intervention-Sincere Remedy-Merciful Remedy-Mystical Intervention-Sincere Remedy-Merciful Remedy due to the longer recast time, but I'll often mash an intervention before a remedy if both are refreshed since intervention is twice as much healing (though one second slower)

    You can make spell sets with just one gem filled, for swapping quickly between different spells with a /mems hotkey.
  9. Nylrem Augur

    What your 'best' heals are, in a raid environment, is going to vary from guild to guild, and from event to event. It's going to depend on the number of healers in the raid, the raid mechanics, how many healers are healing that tank at a particular time, etc.

    With the way the new gamparse works, this is not terribly difficult to do, but, it's not overly simple either.

    I'm going to use my Friday night raid parse as an example, and show how to figure it out, for 1 spell, which I'll use Sincere Remedy.

    First, to note... If a heal lands, and it does not heal for at least 1 hp, it does not even register as a 'heal' in the game. No heal amount assigned in logs, for overhealing or any other way to track it I don't believe. Gamparse tracks the times you've 'begins to cast X' so it knows how many times you've at least begun to cast a spell, but tracking how many land for 0, it right now does not directly do.

    So, combining all mobs for entire night, and then clicking on the healing tab...

    Click my cleric's name, to left side.

    It shows everyone I healed to right.

    If I click on each player, one by one, and add up all the 'counts' of Sincere Remedy, I get 222.

    But, if I go to spells and discs tab, it says I cast 498 for the night...

    Yep, that's correct, 276 of 498 landed for 0 hp healed...

    So, totaling all 222 that did land, for the ACTUAL heal values, I get 13,419,666 hp.

    That, divided by 498 ACTUAL casts = 26,947 hp average healed per cast.

    With a 1.82s ACTUAL cooldown/reaction/lag time (for me - yours may be different, but I can guarantee it's NOT 1.5s actual).

    Actual cooldown is easy to calculate for a cleric, cast Light 100 times, divide total time by 100, then subtract it's actual cast time, whatever it's at when you're casting it, and get your 'ACTUAL' cooldown time. When calculating actual heal per second it is NOT fair to judge all heal spells with a 1.5s cooldown time, especially since our cast times vary by such a large amount.

    26,947hp / 2.32s (cast+recast) = 11,615 hp/s actual healed, for Sincere Remedy, for me for the night.

    *yes, some of the casts will be faster, when under celestial rapidity, but i'm too lazy to even attempt to see how many that was, this is close enough for me, personally.

    Now, just do that same thing for every heal, and you'll then have a very good 'base' to go off of, knowing what your 'best' healing per second is. As is always the case though, you may need to adjust your heals per event, type, mechanic, etc.

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