I've been back in EQ for about 6 months now after a long hiatus. I was gone to Paragon City for a long time, but that's in the past. Now that I'm back and in my groove, I find myself running into a lot of the same old frustrations that I was once happy to leave behind. I have a good friend in my current guild that's offered repeatedly to powerlevel me into 'grouping range', IE, the late 80s-early 90s. I do not *want* to power level. I want to PLAY the game and enjoy it. The single biggest frustration is the fact that EQ RUSHES you through the leveling aspect of the game towards the endgame. Now, with 105 levels, players can go from 1 - 60 in 2 zones. Without grouping. ARGHGHGH! I don't want my 'epic content' at the end. I want awesome content and opportunities to group all the way through the game! Is that too much to ask? Apparently it was, at least of SOE. I'm hoping that it's not of Daybreak. Other designers have done it and done it well. Daybreak devs? Can you do this? Can you make players *want* to play at level 20? 30? 40? I'm willing to bet you can, but it's going to take some effort on your part. When EQ first encountered serious competition from other games that let their players solo while waiting to group (some of them with automated group builders), their answer to the problem was to introduce mercenaries. The RIGHT answer to that problem was to rebalance the game so that players could, on their own, solo until they found a group, preferably with the option of a group builder that would send them to an instance of a dungeon. SOE dropped the ball on that one, tried to pick it up, kicked it into a baby's face in the crowd and then tweeted, "Massive smash! #babyface" while an ambulance was taking the injured infant to the hospital. Now that the game is 16 years old, it is perhaps too much to ask Daybreak to fix mistakes made almost a decade ago by other developers and designers when it would literally be less effort and expense to develop a new game. However, I believe that the grouping issue *can* be solved by revamping the shroud system. First the abilities that shrouds grant need to be seriously reworked so that they are in line with what a modern player expects in terms of a teammate. The idea of 'unlocking' shrouds needs to go away. It's a time sink that is unnecessary. Instead, shrouds need to become more varied with level. Second, Shrouds need to go both ways. If a level 90 player can shroud down to level 20, then a level 20 player should be able to shroud *up* to level 90, perhaps with not quite as many abilities as a real level 90 would have, but still able to contribute in a group. Finally, players need to be rewarded for using shrouds in two ways. The first way is with auto-assigned currency that you can either exchange a a smaller amount for a random reward or save and purchase a specific reward, appropriate to your level. Second, shrouded players should get exp of some kind. This can be AAEXP or main EXP. This is the single most important part of getting a level 90 to group with their level 20 friend with a shroud-- if they're earning AAs or exp while doing so. Yeah, it sounds extreme, but remember that you're already rocketing players to the endgame anyway. The idea of content being a reward has had its time, and that time was ten years ago. Really. There are other fixes I'd like to see... like re-itemizing the game so that drops that used to be special aren't crap when compared to same-level Defiant gear. It hurts my heart to vendor a Dragoon's Dirk. And frankly, I'd really would like to see mercenaries disappear in favor of a complete difficulty overhaul. Don't think it's gonna happen. I think, however, revamping the shroud system can be done with a fairly minimal amount of development time and resources. I'm already tired of soloing again, Daybreak, and I don't wanna power-level. This *is* a problem you can fix. I really believe that.
You're not going to get a lot of love from people regarding shrouds that have developed their characters since day one, or over 15 years, or even just a decade because that's what they've worked on and that's what they wish to use in their adventures through Norrath, not some arbitrary thing that is less than what they're used to. I guarantee you're going to get even less love from the following: The latter isn't logical. You say your friend offered to powerlevel you but that's not your cup of tea but that person has the ability right now to shroud down and help you at a more equal level. I'm going to guess that same friend is unwilling simply for the reason that I stated in my first sentence. If anything leveling up nowadays is orders of magnitude easier than it was `back in the day`. I can appreciate the intention behind the shroud system when it was first introduced and it was a clever thing to do, it's just not really the niche thing that the players really gravitated towards.
Rift does an okay job at the whole "shrouding" thing, although the toons leveled down are usually a bit OP still.
Let me defend this. The reason that it IS logical is the first argument you made. A significant portion of players don't *want* to shroud down. Like you said, they've spent lots of time developing their character and are not interested in playing anything else. I bet they would, however, spend time with a lower level player who was shrouded *up* to their level. The shrouded player could certainly not contribute in the manner of a fully developed character, but they *could* still contribute. I love the idea of rewarding such play with, say, stored AAEXP. A level 20 player shrouds up to level 90. He earns a certain amount of AAEXP. Of course he cannot spend that at level 20. However, it goes into a store for him so, when he hits 51, he can apply it to some of those AAs that are not covered by auto-grant, or if he is a FTP players, regular AAs.
The concentration of players at the upper levels is something that has been encouraged, even pushed, by both SoE and Daybreak. They want it this way. Why? It allows them to focus dev time on a narrow range of levels and zones. It also concentrates the very thin playerbase into areas and levels where they can group and raid. Spread the current population out over 105 levels and you would have...nothing. What you are asking for would be a huge step backwards with populations as they are today. No, I don't like it, but there you are.
I understand that you feel adding mercenaries was a mistake; SoE didn't and neither do the vast majority of players in game. It's going to be a difference of opinion there. For shrouds, yes they were supposed to have other functionality and be continued but like some other good projects in the game, it got dropped and never actually flushed out.
What you're describing sounds no better than a merc, and maybe worse, so I am not sure why the majority of the playerbase would go out of their way to group with someone who is shrouded up (unless they were good friends with the person). By the time a level toon of any class has turned 90, they have earned a ton of aa's, skills, spells/tomes, etc. That's a lot to expect someone who was just level 20 to figure out how to play just to enjoy a pug group here and there. It was like when SoE first introduced heroics to the marketplace. People quickly saw how these brand new level 85 characters were tough to group with because the people playing them had no idea yet how to play the class. Therefore, I just don't see how the shrouding up thing would be beneficial. You may have a good argument for DBG to improve the shrouds to go backwards, as if they worked better more people may be interested in using it. But as it stands right now, with very limited resources, I just don't see that there is enough demand for the time and resources it would take to do it.
The vast majority of the EQ population is at or near the "end game" but you want the game devs to concentrate dev time and resources on making the game "fun and epic" for the low level players. If you have spent any time trying to find out the state of the game before this post you would know that Dev resources are not what they used to be and that there isn't a lot of Dev time for anything but the content near the end game. No idea why players should be rewarded for using shrouds. Shrouds are a benefit to be used or not. If you do not want to power level or just level on your own quickly to 90 but you want to be able to instantly shroud to 90. *blink* . So you want to be able to earn things and exp at 90 but also stay low level. Yes you get to group with higher levels but you are getting those other things too If you want to group with level 90s you can already do that by levelling up. Shrouding lets higher level toons group with lower level ones "if they want to do that". That ship has sailed and Daybreak/SOE decided that increasing the speed of leveling at the lower levels was the way to go. I respect your right to your opinion but I have to ask how long have you been back? To it seems it hasn't been long enough to get a complete grasp on the state of EQ today. But again that is just my opinion.
Your own sig shows that you are aware of the recent influx of new players, many of them returnees, like myself: Are you saying that the Daybreak devs should ignore this sudden stroke of good fortune and *not* cater to these new players? This is a chance to breathe new life into what was becoming a quite elderly game. More than long enough to see that EVERY guild is eager to snap up this influx of new players on every server I've visited, even though they're not sure what to do with them. I've also seen that LOTS of players do indeed want to play at low levels-- overcrowding the new TLP servers to the point of breakage. I think those players are looking for the same thing I am-- the opportunity to group at any level. That's what I'm asking for here with my ideas for expanding the shroud system. I don't care WHAT level I am and frankly, if there were no rewards associated with it, I'd personally *still* use it if it meant getting a group, but I don't think that's a commonly held sentiment. That's why I said that I thought that the exp rewards were necessary. Revamping the shroud system may not be the right answer, but honestly, I'm surprised at the hostility I'm seeing here to the ideas I've suggested. Remember that Daybreak is *not* SOE. They are not bound by SOE's rules. Even Smedley is gone from the game's management now. (Even if he may be back at a future date.) I think that Daybreak can do what SOE cannot: Breathe life into a dying game where the old crustiness is aging and growing brittle at levels 90-105 while new life is surging into the game at lower levels. I ask you to reconsider. Step out of your comfort zone for just a second and imagine yourself as one of the new, returning players. Wouldn't you want your new, high-level friends to be able to group with you?
The game is fun and epic at lower levels if you have friends to go through it with you, look at the popularity of the progression servers. All that content didn't go anywhere. The issue is most people on normal servers prefer the latest greatest thing, thus they would rather play current content. Few people have EVERYTHING done on even their main toons so going back and doing level 40 content with you seems a "waste of time". They would much rather "rush" you through the lower stuff so you can enjoy the current content with them. The DEVs have already spent a lot of time putting all that 1-100 content out there, there is no way you are going to see all of what already exists. With limited resources it would not be efficient to go back and add more stuff for lower levels when there is currently more than you could ever consume already out there to see.
I understand of the reasons for not having this option available ,but let's just take a look at what he is saying/asking to happen: " I do not want to be rushed and power leveled. I want to play the game." A returning player who may have been playing on the TLP servers is asking us to help the returners get back to the current game through gameplay. To be honest, I would much rather have the Devs spend time of getting those returning players back to us then changes to those TLP servers. If enabling the shrouds to "shroud up" would do it. Would say give it a try. Rykard P.S. I do not necessary agree with everything else he stated but the shroud part sounds good to me if it is not too much work or impossible.
You're missing the key component. Playerbase. There is nothing fun about having two other people in your groupable level range on your server. There is no quicker way to kill raiding that to spread the already thin population over 100+ levels instead of 5-10. There is no surer way to make an expansion fail than trying to create content for 100+ levels instead of 10. I wish the resources and the cash flow necessary to support what you are asking for existed, but it's plain from the server populations that this just isn't true.
Are you equating hostility with people disagreeing with you? They aren't the same thing. I myself hoped that would be the case, but after the extreme cutting (gutting) of the staff, the announcement of "campaigns" vs. expacs, the barest sense of any kind of customer service, the fact that here it is the 3rd of September and we have no announcement of a campaign release date, and on and on....I have had to come to the conclusion that we were much better off in SoE's hands. Oh well...at least the lights are still on.
Actually, I think we have a lot to look forward to. Just today, we're being asked to log into the test server to 'make sure nothing's wrong'. As a computer programmer, that tells me that a few different things may going on: a) the hardware that runs the game servers is being upgraded, b) the game server itself is being upgraded in order to handle new features, c) they're implementing new tech in both the game server *and* client in order to do things with the game that haven't been done before. Someone in another thread mentioned cross-server instances. Others are mentioning the possibility of a 'prison server' for cheaters. Both are very possible. Changes to the structure of our character data are possible as well, allowing for things such as permanent illusions or similar goodies. Even if nothing happens to address my concerns, I think good things are coming.
Shrouds are far more likely to be removed from the game than be revamped. Their only real uses have been various exploits and pseudo-exploits across the years. Also, they're not fun to play. I don't want to play some garbage NPC with a whole new set of hotkeys. I want the play the character I made in 99 and have been playing since then.
While I agree with you on wanting to just play my own character as it is there are still a number of people that use shrouds and not for exploits. I am not one of them but they are out there.
Or... alternate playstyles! I see shrouds as an extension to your character, not a replacement. Would have been cool if they'd been continued and maxing out a full line of a shroud offered benefits, some minor AC boosts if a tank heavy shroud line, or spell resistance if caster heavy like the fairy line. Or earnable gear like Mercs get. At least new shrouds, 90-110, with different abilities would be good. Really enjoyed doing ldon's at low levels (20-40ish) in shroud form as something different. Doing recent missions in a different form would spice things up a bit, even without a benefit, but would have added something if there was something worthwhile grinding them out. Or content (at least a bit) made for them, Monster Mission like content. Oh well. Nice diversion but focus on more utilised content has to be the priority.
Make it so that you can just go down to whatever level you want but keep your character and aa's that work on that level. Man if I had a friend at 65 and I could drop down to level 65 with max aa (because I have those aa's), I'd do that for sure. It would add in some life to the game since you could farm all the gear you had previously destroyed for these level ranges.
