Relaxed truebox - if you're against it... why?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Rapala, Feb 3, 2023.

  1. Mazam Journeyman

    Based on what? The mostly flawed logic coming almost entirely from the same exact 20 or so full time hobby posters on this message board? Who I can literally bank on finding being extremely vocal about things they don't like or want in pretty much every single thread anytime I randomly pop in 3-4 times a year to do a little casual reading?

    Repeating something 1000x over and/or drowning out any single disagreement posts on the matter doesn't make that logic sound. Nor does doing enough to get opposing opinion threads derailed/closed make it right. It does make it extremely loud though.

    Listening to loud here is what ends up giving us servers like Vaniki.

    Exactly. Same goes for almost every counter argument point that conveniently ignores the backend fact that all players:

    1. Have to consciously chose to play on that one of 2 different ruleset servers offered every year.

    2. Have to click that "yes" button every single time they log into the server, and which essentially amounts to their own signed agreement with whatever that server's specific terms of service wants to include.
  2. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Guides used to be able to handle various CS duties but that was removed from their list of duties long ago and they have slowly removed other powers over time such as changing a players last name.

    There is a reason why guides can't police players and while they may not have stated the reasons the fact that guide power has been reduced should make it easy to see that they don't want it to happen.
  3. Mazam Journeyman

    How about we instead consider that the explanation possibility behind your why there simply boils down to there just not being much of an actual pressing internal need for such on any of the existing TLPs that get deployed with a fairly well functional in-game world auto pilot mostly turned to ON.

    A new server concept that would legitimately need a re-emergence of the outsourced guide program to actually function as intended (or more specifically in a manner that could basically help absolve Daybreak of having to directly take on any of that specific maintenance accountability themselves) gives you have an entirely different set of surrounding variables going into that program need evaluation.
  4. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Most of the guide powers got removed well before the TLP servers got created and the remaining items that got removed where not related to TLP servers.
  5. Murdukethegreat New Member

    I always run a minimum 3box and up to 6 just using laptops and usb numpads.

    I dont do this to "kronolord" over anyone. I do this so I can at minimum form my own groups easily during my limited playtime. Raid on 1 char to 6 depending on guild needs

    I definitely wont ever play on a 1char enforced server as i dont want to sit lfg or have my guild fall apart when nobody wants to play clerics and bards
    Appren likes this.
  6. Mazam Journeyman

    Of course somebody could again point out that unlike your 100% hypothetical doomsday scenario we can actually reference a large scale real game world evidence example (p99) that shows your concern there doesn't really actually happen. In fact I'd argue it's more so the exact opposite phenomenon you see play itself out when everybody and their mother isn't running around with their own boxed version of those 2 classes in particular.

    Speaking as somebody who's mained a cleric, to say it's an infinitely better and more rewarding social experience choice as a strictly single box player there then it ends up feeling like here on a "relaxed boxing" server (especially outside of raids) is an understatement imo.
  7. jeskola pheerie

    Its cute you think p99 doesn't have boxers, particularly when it comes to raid guilds.
    Murdukethegreat and Appren like this.
  8. Mazam Journeyman

    Cute to me is making throw away and no real substance comments like that one which just leave me questioning if you actually even have any meaningful firsthand exposure to what it is you are trying to weigh in about.

    I'd be guessing no.
  9. mark Augur

    how many guilds on early tlps dont have boxes on raids?without cleric boxes raids would fail,not everyone raids north american time,i use 6 pc to play 6 accounts and will always play 6.
  10. mark Augur

    i used to 2 box on p99 in fact i could still log in with my 2 accounts,so easy use my mobile phone as the second ips.
  11. Arclyte Augur

  12. Triconx Augur

    Companies cannot recognize krono revenue until it is consumed, like gift cards
  13. Murdukethegreat New Member

    I raided on p99 for years. If you think people dont box clerics idk what to tell you. I personally would log into multiple clerics when needed
  14. Mazam Journeyman

    What guilds are you in Mr. 6-Box that are failing in early expansions specifically due to not having enough boxed clerics? Or was that a mistype there and you simply meant "late" TLPs. Because if you want to make that claim for an absolute need of boxed clerics post-PoP in past iteration TLPs, I'd 100% agree with you.

    If not I'd probably suggest trying to be a little more social with your gameplay and giving one of the other countless guilds always out there a try who are not primarily made up of mass boxers.
  15. liveitup1216 Augur

    I would assume most people understand that there is boxing/cheating on any server (p99 included) but when you allow it from the start it just makes the problem much worse. A no-boxing server is my dream but I know it's a pipe dream. Cheaters will always cheat, and there is no incentive for Daybreak to try to even enforce such a server because it only hurts profits.

    The topic of the thread is "why are you against relaxed truebox" and that's been answered several times, and highlighted by the people who favor boxing. They will pay money to box their own small groups to hoard content to themselves. I don't like it, and my reasoning is in a perfect world (for me) there would be 1 human = 1 character. It just makes for a deeper and more evenly balanced game instead of 1 human being able to occupy gamespace intended for multiple humans. Is that realistic? Of course not but that is beyond the scope of the question.
    Zrender likes this.
  16. Kahna Augur

    No, they cannot just weasel their way around California labor laws, as evidenced by the fact that they haven't. If they could get free labor legally, they would have. Instead we have seen a draw down in guide powers over the years as labor laws have caught up with the internet. But I am sure you will just ignore this fact, as it doesn't support your preferred world view.

    It is not viable because they tried it and it failed. Yeah it was 2 box limit instead of no box limit but they couldn't even manage to enforce that. It is laughable that you think they can enforce no boxing. You keep referencing P99, but P99, a hobby project run by volunteers, has freedoms that DPG, a for profit company, does not. If you can't grasp those legal/financial/social differences nothing I am going to type here is really going to help you.

    P99 can get away with giving volunteer guides power over other players because it is just a hobby project. If a company tries to take my money and then says some random player can suspend or ban my account? Or have any significant power or influence over my account or gameplay what so ever I would no longer be giving them my money. I don't even respond to players who send me annoying tells, I don't owe some random player a response. I would never trust guides given that power, I would never trust anyone who volunteered to police a no box server not to be some power hungry twit. I am not the only person who feels that way.
  17. Mazam Journeyman

    Simply telling me a vague and undetailed instance of somebody boxing on p99 is not good evidence to me supporting a statement that the policing of a non-boxing server would somehow not be viable on Daybreak servers.

    I can't comment on the state of p99 as of today. But i can on the 4+ year period and thousands of hours of my life playing p99 under a toon of the same name. Much of which involved helping to participate in and organize the systematic lock down off all the server's raid targets and premium valued loot coming in to the game. As well as keeping a constant every day eye on any other potential hardcore play popping up on the server, and while leading the recruitment effort for the never ending need of fresh bodies willing to replace the ones constantly being burned out by the game's bat phone raiding.

    I've seen firsthand just how far the most miniscule amount of policing effort, with some actual teeth behind it, can go as far as steering the entire sum of the most toxic minded player base imaginable away from making any boxing rule breaks. That I can say with 100% certainly wasn't happening on any log in and be able to find it happening scale in my 4+ years there.

    The idea that it isn't viable to adapt the same foundation that made it work then to a daybreak server today is typically just being ignorant to the reasons why it worked over there in the first place. Which doesn't even realistically require this huge continuous investment of time and resources some people here like to paint out as a damning barrier to it being done. Heck, it's even infinitely easier to root out if no boxing is allowed period. With a few added lines to the T&S, the actual go ahead on granting an isolated power to ban accounts found boxing, and given the ability to not just activate an auto trigger warning on everybody's third party EYES program anytime I'm lurking around, I could easily stomp out 95%+ of the boxing going on in open world game play before the server even hit Kunark. By myself, and only investing a very spare amount of time in my day. It only get easier and a lot less hands on after that too the further people's investments got into their toons.
    Zrender likes this.
  18. Mazam Journeyman

    The only one I see ignoring anything there is you, and the need within your pigeon holed narrative to suggest that any application attempt of a guide program has to include something easily deemed as 100% free labor in a court of law.

    As for the rest you can refer back to those same 2 points in your quote. Don't like the server idea? Simple. Don't choose to play on the server. if the other server has the relaxed boxing you want, roll there. Why not just leave it at that, instead of essentially continually hating on the no-box concept simply due to the high probability it's existence would likely mean you yourself would have roll on the less populated new server. That is just lame imo.
    Zrender likes this.
  19. Valcron Elder

    This isn't true Aradune has a larger raiding population than Riz
    Zrender likes this.
  20. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Me: Rizlona has more active subs.
    You: Not true, Aradune has a larger raiding population.

    These are not opposing statements so I'm not sure what you're arguing is untrue. Aradune may have more raiders, but less total subs (revenue) due to Rizlona having more boxes / characters that are only group tier.