Regarding Third Party Cheat Programs

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by EQ Dev, Jul 18, 2018.

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  1. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    You guys have made the list before I believe, back when Piestro was around. It was simple and straight forward. People can try silly things like re-compile the obvious one and call it a new name (like the person did with the timestamp version of it), but you can simply put a - "any altered or renamed versions fall under this category". People already know all about what's out there. It's not really a secret anymore. Hasn't been for a long time.
  2. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Maybe a list of not-allowed features, would make it clear, what is and what isn't allowed? That way you don't list specific programs, but concepts instead.

    And would using a program that has a not-allowed feature, without using that specific feature, be ok or not? I hear that excuse all the time...
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and elumxe like this.
  3. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    Whose dense? The person who considers the basic question (that's me) or the person who throws out the basic question (um, that's you) and inserts a personal attack type remark.

    See I can appreciate Khatnip's remark because he correctly reminded me that GINA does leverage the audio trigger functionality and hence is not illegal in kind of a legalistic, "let the guy go on a technicality" type deal.

    But your remark lacks substance altogether.

    And, yes, I was in a server wide best guild back in the day.
  4. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    Great idea.

    Consider that you know how to detect these programs. Thus, listing what you already know how to detect, should it draw attention to the listed items as perhaps you fear, will not in any way change your ability to detect those programs. You already have that. You will go forward and sanction either way... as you should :)
  5. Jessita New Member

    Riddle me this batman.

    Everyone knows we need faction - it been in the game since the start - everyone knows farming for faction is the most painful process of playing EQ.

    So - I am sitting there watching TV, smashing my wireless keyboard to farm faction killing mobs
    I guess I got a tell, put i usually play with no chat except for my group damage and spells and loot messages - i play the game i want i don't need to socialize in game i do enough at work etc.. this is my time to do what i want to do - heck i pay for it.
    GM swarmofbees - then appears next to my character - i see him on the screen so i wave and say hi to be courteous to a gm, but in reality i dont give two shiats - i pay your wage wtf you bothering me.
    so i get a i was just checking if you are afk - i was like nope just sitting here smashing the keyboard to get faction cause you guys added this feature to the game for over 20 years that is so outdated and a waist of my time - so i am watching tv at the same time to pass the time. Anyways after a bit i log out for dinner with the family goto log back in and bam i am suspended. 3 day suspension email i get the next day.
    so really wtf - so i took the time to look at a few other games, as the suspension was on a friday so had the weekend, started playing another game - well kinda got hooked on it now - so not going to resub atm going to try this other game for a bit - thnx DBG - since i am leader of guild told other members i am moving and going to give this other game a try - i had another 7 people say hey we can group up and try this new thing together - so sorry 7 subs lost of players that actually play the game and still do stupid quests but hey thems the breaks

    so DBG - here is what happened in my eyes
    you have no idea about the game as i think you don't play it yourselves.
    the suspension i got maybe it was justified cause i guess i am supposed to sit there staring at the game screen and repeating the same function for a few hours at a time honesty I would like to know how many people actually sit faction grinding staring at the screen as intended - hats off to you.
    , get you thinking is it actually worth it
    so maybe this is the wrong thread as i am not a person that uses third party things or has the time to even look them up.
    so currently not sure what eq has going for me for the time being the nostalgia has warn off - a break is needed ill keep an eye on the txt tlp, but until then maybe put more effort into fixing the game - gm training - trying to keep customer rather than pushing them away -
  6. elumxe Elder

    If the “altered or renamed” is a criteria, all item and spell collectors used by the third party sites like Lucy and eqresource and Magelo would be immediately disqualified as well since they use exactly the same core code.. think before u suggest something as asinine.

    There shouldn’t be a list of actual programs because it doesn’t make any sense.
    For example I use excel all the time even though it can be abused to execute malicious code and people release excel viruses...
    No one in their right mind would ban excel because a subset of it’s users are bad...

    The problem isn’t the programs, it’s features and abuse of features that gives an unfair advantage.
    Let’s see a list of features not allowed and lets take it from there.
    If there really is an actual program that’s not allowed, why not send a pm to the dev to work it out?
    Dialog is always better than ban threats I think.
  7. Sultan Elder

    Its been explained many times by DBG that the monetary value of a krono is not gained until its consumed, therefore Krono's that have been in circulation for many years without being consumed hurt their bottom line where as a paid subscription is used and consumed instantly and cannot be sat on for 10+ years.
  8. Sultan Elder

    Do you realise that the game has its own GINA type system right?
    Jumbur likes this.
  9. Aurmoon Augur

    Not to get all accounting on you, but what you’re describing is the impact of Accrual Accounting as opposed to what I was describing which was actual cash flow. No doubt Daybreak uses Accrual Accounting, which basically means they need to create a “Deferred Revenue” or similar liability which equals the total dollars of all Krono not consumed. It should also include cash from subscription time purchased but not consumed, but that’s not part of this discussion.

    Every time a Krono is consumed, the Deferred Revenue liability is reduced (on the balance sheet) and revenue is recognized on the income statement. There is no change in actual cash (the cash was collected up front when the Krono was sold). So the consumption of Krono will allow Daybreak to recognize revenue and appear more profitable based on its income statement, but the cash benefit of the Krono comes at the time of sale of the Krono.

    So yes, technically they need the Krono to be consumed in order to improve their bottom line, but all that does is raise their taxable income. Consumed or not, they still get to keep all the cash, which is what really matters.
  10. Sultan Elder

    Correct, however, most high-end tier itemisation is not being sold by legitimate players who need to consume Kronos for subs. It's being hoarded by krono/plat 3rd party farmers and then resold elsewhere for a cheaper value then what they are sold for on the DBG store and there would be a small % of the games population who take that chance to buy them for that reduced price in fear they either don't get their item or in fear they will get caught and banned.

    So when someone buys 5 kronos from DBG only to buy that awesome item or to sell for in-game plat to twink out multiple alts, the krono more than likely lands into the pot of 3rd party resellers.

    The point here is simply that krono is not being used for the reason intended but rather abused by those who have perfected abusing it over the last decade.
  11. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    Ummm, no they don't. The one in particular is C++. Magelo is Java. Zam's is a packet capture program. I don't see the EQ Resource one to download, so I can't comment there. So want to comment again (or maybe research before you comment)?
  12. Eggolas Augur

    Also, making a list should be "includes but not limited to."
  13. elumxe Elder

    Oh so the criteria is we just change language to java but we use the same core and we are fine? I know for a fact that magelo uses core structs.
    Also, dude, I wrote the eqresource item collector, and zams collector use my structs as well. You are way out of your depth here. Just drop it.
    Ishtass likes this.
  14. Hellboy007 Augur

    I will continue to use the code name Game Genie. Will the use of this software result in ban for any use period? AFK or not. I need not say what Game Genie is as you know exactly what it is..
  15. Abrax Apprentice

    About time for this.
    xcitng likes this.
  16. Aurmoon Augur

    Sultan, I don’t doubt for a moment that this is exactly what is happening. However, the person that is actually losing value in this transaction is the 3rd party resellers. Let’s take a look at this from the perspective of each party involved:

    Daybreak: Sold 5 Kronos via the Marketplace at full value. No problems here.
    Player 1: Bought 5 Krono via the Marketplace (willingly), traded the Krono for awesome item. Player has opted to pay that price for item willingly. No problems here.
    3rd Party Reseller (1st transaction): Trades rare chase loot item worth 5 Krono (fair market value) for 5 Krono. No gains, no losses.
    3rd Party Reseller (2nd transaction): In order to convert 5 Krono to cash, sells Krono at a discount to market value ($8 instead of $13). Takes a loss of $25 on the sale of 5 Krono willingly because it is the only way to convert Krono to cash.
    Online Krono Buyers: Purchase Krono for $8 from reseller instead of Daybreak (who sold that same original Krono for $13 to Player 1). This is a meaningful discount to market value. Consumes Krono (or trades it). Quite happy!

    Based on this system of events, Daybreak doesn’t lose a penny because they get full value for each Krono. The buyer from Daybreak is happy because they were able to get rare chase loot (in exchange for purchased Krono from Daybreak) for a price they thought was fair. The 3rd party reseller had to sell his Krono at a discount in order to convert it into cash, but he is okay with this. And finally the online Krono buyers are happy because they were able to get a Krono at a discount. So everyone within the system is pleased with the outcome.

    Who ISN’T pleased? Those outside the system who don’t participate, and therefore don’t have as much chase loot or as many Krono. This is a legitimate argument from my perspective. However, I don’t think it is a strong enough argument for Daybreak to justify eliminating Krono or stopping resellers.
  17. Aurmoon Augur

    Sorry for the double post but I’m sitting in a hotel room bored and really actually enjoy economics discussions, so off we go!

    Krono come into existence when sold by Daybreak to a player for full value (generally more than the price of a subscription, depending on volume/length). From Daybreak’s perspective, the more Krono in circulation, the more cash in their pocket. This is irrefutable because they are literally the ONLY producers of new Krono.

    The value of Krono over paying the subscription fee is that it is tradeable for in-game items of value. Basically, players buy Krono from Daybreak in order to sell it for plat or items. Here is the catch: the more items that are available for sale or the greater the demand for platinum, the more important Krono become. As new chase items enter the economy, this increases the demand for Krono/platinum, which is the currency players use to buy the chase items. So the bot armies that are out there farming chase items 24/7 and then selling them for Krono are literally creating a market for Krono! TLPs are a little different — the demand for Krono is created by just regular old gear — but the concept is identical. If you wipe out the bot armies, you severely restrict the new supply of chase items and consequently diminish the demand for Krono.

    I know this sounds ridiculous, but virtual economies behave the same way that real economies behave. I suspect that Daybreak would need to substantially increase the drop rate on chase items if they were to eliminate the bot farming groups, otherwise the amount of Krono circulating in the economy would start to decrease as demand for newly created Krono shrinks.

    Obviously this isn’t guaranteed, but I think it is a very real consideration.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and elumxe like this.
  18. Cleaver Augur

    People hating on kronos should realize this game probably would of been shut down years ago without the revenue from kronos.

    Chase items bring in revenue this game needs and you should just accept that and play the game. Without it you wouldn't have a game to play.
    elumxe likes this.
  19. Ghubuk Augur

    Actually, I suspect it wouldn't quite go like that. Without the bot armies, chase loot would become more rare and therefore the price krono wise would increase which would balance it out. Supply and demand.
    Baadan likes this.
  20. asdfqwerty Journeyman

    simple...DBG needs to lock krono's to peoples accounts/no drop and make a NEW item that does the same thing and call them (for lack of a better name) Kroyes's and start from scratch.

    RMT people would be stuck with their game time (im sure big krono accounts would go for good money 10 years+ worth of eq game time in RMT).

    Both the no drop krono's would work for a month of game time and the new droppable kroyes's would work for game time.

    It would then open a flood of DBG store purchases to buy the new droppable kroyes's to trade for in game items and plat...but at least it would calm down the current mass krono in existence and people buying from rmt sites instead of looking at DBG first in the now.

    Its like having 2 items doing the same thing tash stick and fabled tash stick ones droppable other isnt both tashes (no one cares about the stats of the fabled).
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