Regarding Third Party Cheat Programs

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by EQ Dev, Jul 18, 2018.

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  1. Jumbur Improved Familiar


    Well, in this case, every action that the character is performing is initiated by player input, through means that the standard eq-client offer. I would consider this legit. The key-point here, is that DBG themselves offered this functionality, thus it is an integral part of their game-design.
    If DBG consider this unbalanced they can simply alter the way the ingame-macros work.

    However, there might be other rules here that will have to be taken into consideration here, such as: is 1 of the macro lines an order to a pet/merc, to aggressively keep a spawn point clear for an indefinite amount of time?
    But assuming that is not the case, I would not call it "unattended gameplay". The limited number of lines in a macro is by itself a limitation to how long a "single" player-input can last. (not counting silly stuff like:"/pause 9999999999,/say not afk,/say look im afk!;" )

    That is the main reason for not allowing loops and references to other macros, in macros.
  2. Ghubuk Augur

    This is getting ridiculous. First off, people arent getting banned because they alt tabbed for a second. DBG isn't looking to ban people for no reason. They like the revenue.
    But, if you are worried about receiving a tell on a toon you don't have in the forefront of your screen, do what I do. Set up an audio alert for tells.
  3. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Definitely do need a bit more in regards to guidelines for examples like this.
  4. Grammerpolice New Member


    I never said they were looking to ban people. I said they could ban people who are alt tabbed for a moment. As a boxer you paint a target on your back, when people see 6 characters doing their own thing, sometimes they report them. A boxer is much more likely to get reported for AFK play than a regular player, that's just how it is. Due to this, boxers usually play defensively. This backfires because some of them are rude and disruptive to other players and then those players in turn end up hating all boxers. It's a vicious cycle that creates the toxic atmosphere you see right now with people wanting to ban all third party programs.

    A lot of people here that I have seen won't even be open minded enough to think about what's acceptable and what isn't when it comes to third party programs.
    Adrienna likes this.
  5. Ghubuk Augur

    I four box and I have never felt worried or scared.
  6. Wizlard Augur

    You didn't do it well enough then.
    Ghubuk likes this.
  7. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I think some of the resentment towards boxers came from the early TLP's(ragefire?) where many nostalgic people were expecting a lot of old fashioned grouping. Didn't help that there were long login-queues, where some people thought, that logging in with 5+ chars was a little selfish, when they themselves had to wait in line with their single char.
    Also didn't help that it was the first server where the play-nice-policy, was not widely accepted, leading to a lot of drama.

    That is all off-topic though, as this thread really isn't about boxing...
    Janakin likes this.
  8. Ghubuk Augur

    Lol, nice. You're probably right...:)
  9. Grammerpolice New Member


    Four is a lot different than 6, not saying you gotta be good to play 6 - with some programs you really dont have to be good at all.... But you draw much more attention the more you box. Boxing A full group usually gets peoples attention, if you box 12 + especially those who box their own raid - those sorts of people are often harrassed. I speak from experience on that end sadly. I'm very friendly and talk to everyone I encounter in game but a lot of the time people just assume that I am a terrible person when they encounter me. If I get too close to someones camp they start freaking out assuming I am there to steal their camp while just moving through and stuff like that.

    If I am in a popular zone where people duo/solo I also have had people train me without even asking if I was a human first because they just automatically assumed I was botting due to how many characters I had. I really hope Daybreak clears up once and for all what's allowed and what isn't. I'd like to see the community become more accepting of the programs that many of the players use to help them box or enjoy the game more.




    It *is* about boxing though, just some people can't accept that a person playing 1 character and automating the rest is boxing too. Even by Daybreak's standards, it's why they corrected their policy to say unattended playing wasn't allowed when Phinigel came out. That's how some people enjoy playing the game. As you'll see with this thread and what Daybreak says doing that is ok. But some people will still refuse to accept it just like they did when Phinigel came out and Daybreak did the Phinigel FAQ.

    I play both ways, I'm one of the few people who thinks you can't be good at the game while automating almost all your characters, in order to be good at the game you need to play all the characters at one time like one unit.

    I don't care how a person plays, it doesn't affect how I play at all. All I care about is how people are treated and it's obvious that the community is very poorly receptive to the people they call botters. Despite the fact that Daybreak accepts this way of playing and has for many many years... So long as it's not unattended, which I think we can all agree Daybreak should take some more measures to prevent than they currently do
    Adrienna, adelmo and Delphi66 like this.
  10. Ghubuk Augur

    This is where I think it is wrong though. If you are using 3rd party software to box 12, then that software is giving you an unfair advantage as you cannot box 12 under normal legit circumstances.
    complexication and xcitng like this.
  11. Grammerpolice New Member


    This is where I think Daybreak very poorly worded their policy, because saying you shouldn't be able to use software that gives you an advantage is silly. Literally everything we do is to give ourselves an advantage over others. Verizon Fios is 100$ a month and I pay that price over the 60$ in my area for Comcast because fiber optics gives me a huge advantage over people with laggy internet.

    And again, if you can't use software that gives you an advantage then you shouldn't be able to use GINA, Gamparse and other programs like that. They all give people such a clear and distinct advantage that they are required if you want to be a good raider in this game.
    Delphi66 likes this.
  12. Herf Augur


    That's because I didn't do drugs, and I resented having to pee in a cup just to work at some place like Home Depot.
  13. roth Augur

    Once you automate, it turns from boxing into botting.

    People like boxers. They dislike bottlers. No one has any qualms about people who TAB from one account to another to control their boxed characters, any more than they have any beef with people who actually run multiple computers and switch from one to the other in order to do something with another character.

    This thread is very PRO-BOXING, and very ANtI-BOTTING. Please stop trying to conflate the two.
    Ghubuk and xcitng like this.
  14. Ghubuk Augur

    Seeing as how the "game genie" program has code in it to specifically turn itself off if a gm shows up, even they know it is cheating and doing everything they can to make it difficult to get caught for "unattended" gameplay.
    xcitng likes this.
  15. Grammerpolice New Member


    This statement is the primary reason we have this problem. All I hear from you is, "We don't want them sharing the same water fountains that we use."

    You can BOX 18 characters without using the BOT software. In fact, if you use the BOT software you'll be really really really really bad at boxing. A botter is still a boxer, just not a good one.

    ((Also, Holly has used the word bot many times instead of saying box, she understands the difference between the two but still considers what they do the same activity; aka boxing... After all - all that matters in the end is what Daybreak says the rules are and they allow it))

    correlation does not imply causation

    Let me draw a similar conclusion: The program also has a plugin which instantly disconnects you if you try to connect to a true box server which means that the program is very anti cheater.
  16. Ghubuk Augur

    So, if having code in specifically to turn itself off if another player or gm come within a certain distance isnt to allow for unattended gameplay and not get caught (ie big time cheating), then why is it there?
    And that is above and beyond the fact that I don't think it should be allowed because the advantage it gives crazy. There is a reason that every modern online game works hard to stop botting software.
    xcitng likes this.
  17. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    From the "phinigel faq" https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/true-box-progression-server-faq.228779/
    Their wording can be "twisted"... as controlling one of your boxes and having an AI control the others, do in fact not count as "unattended gameplay" as you are physically "at your keyboard" watching bots play your boxes.
    However most people(me at least) would probably think it means, you have to control all your characters with your keyboard.

    The difference is probably how you choose to read the rules...:p

    We probably all have guesses regarding DBG's intention...

    I do note that they are allowing third party software on live servers though...:)
  18. Vegaroth Obscura New Member


    Do people really still do alt-tabbing? I just box three accounts and have three screens. Am I doing it wrong?
  19. Ghubuk Augur

    I load my characters up in the same order and each instance has its own icon in the task bar. Because they are loaded in the same order all the time, I know which one to click on so I can switch to that toon and do what I need to do.
    xcitng likes this.
  20. Raptor_Shadowz New Member


    Did You really just compare people not wanting to play with cheaters to segregated water fountains in the 60's? How far off the path are you willing to go to attempt to justify the usage of 3rd party programs?

    I doubt most of people here are stupid enough to not know the difference as to whats going to be banned or not banned all you're doing at this point is rules lawyering in a twisted attempt to try and catch this company in a bind so you can feel good about being "smarter" than them, "Well THIS program is named Cookiez not Cookies so omfgz! Why the ban hammer?"

    Well you're not smarter, They own the IP not you, You rent said services from them, which they have the right to remove you from for any reason they choose at any time they choose. None of us own these pixels. You can feel free to weasel your way around anything attempting to justify what you do by changing names, or what-if-ing it to death but at the end of the day you are a command line away from loosing it all and you have no one to blame but yourself.
    Rolaque, xcitng and Ghubuk like this.
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