Regarding Third Party Cheat Programs

elumxe, if your program didn't give an unfair advantage to those that use it then there would be no point in them using it, would there? Yet here we are.
I'll have zero sympathy for anyone that gets perma-banned using yours or anyone else's program.
I'm irritated that the agreement was made for it not to function on specific TLP servers but all of the live servers got the proverbial finger. No program like it should be allowed on any server.

I know, Gamparse gives such an unfair advantage to everyone using it. I mean there would be no point in using it if it didn't, would there?

I don't use any third party programs other than Gamparse, but this bugged me for some reason.

We should also ban downloaded maps, if DBG wanted us to have maps for all zones, they would be in the client already.

Of course, a bit of difference is that one is free and the other isnt.

So, your idea of unfair is cost? If someone released a third party program that did everything whatever program it is you're talking about that was totally free, it would be okay? Mind you, I'm assuming this isn't like warping and crap like that.

If Gamparse started charging, would that make it unfair? That seems like some odd logic to me, really.

You know full well what I was referring to so stop being sarcastic.

Well, no. Just saying people are more likely to use gameparse even though it doesnt give this huge advantage because it is free. Not sure people would be willing to pay a monthly subscription to it unlike "game genie".

nobody has seen or heard from mabbu over on coirnav (no I don't play on there lol) since this communication went out.. hmmm

I'd apologize for being sarcastic, but honestly? My response without sarcasm would have been much shorter. You implied that nobody would use a third party program unless it gave an unfair advantage, and I find that at best laughable, simply because Gamparse is a thing. I only use it because I'm a DPS nerd. I like big numbers, and I like seeing my numbers so I can continue my weird DPS war with my guild mates.

Can I just say how much this "Don't name the programs" is turning this conversation into complete inanity? Almost nobody can be sure if they're calling the same program Game Genie, or if they're yelling at each other about two totally different programs.

I'm also going to guess that people aren't going to see a third party program mentioned on a post about how you will get banned if you use these third party programs and think "Well, Gosh, I think it'd be a good idea to use this program."

Pray tell what does Gamparse have to do with any of this since you keep bringing it up?
I'll just preempt you and answer, "nothing".

It is a third party program, and as you so helpfully bolded in your reply for me you claimed that people wouldn't use a third party program unless it gave an unfair advantage. I'll admit it's an argument to the absurd but this whole thread is fairly absurd. I could have used GINA as an example.

It's quite apparent that you didn't quite grasp my original post. Please read the first sentence over and over until such time that you're able to exclude Gamparse, GINA, Magelo, and Lucy from the things I was referring to.
I'll even provide a copy here:

"elumxe, if your program didn't give an unfair advantage to those that use it then there would be no point in them using it, would there? Yet here we are."

Gameparse and GINA could be argued as giving an unfair advantage. I mean, even Lucy could, since it gives details on the raw spell data.

You can get the raw spell data right now by opening your spells_us.txt in your EQ directory.

Edit to add: What unfair advantage does Gamparse give you? You know what your DPS is and someone not using it doesn't know their's? So what?
GINA? The same functionality can be used with the native in-game AT system.

Oh, No I really do get what you meant, and that's exactly why I posted what I did.

I will admit I can't actually speak to Elumxes program, because I have zero idea who that person is, or what their program is. Honestly though, your statement could be taken to it's logical extreme by the devs and get ANY third party program banned, including innocuous ones like those mentioned. I swear they have this weird fascination with taking the worst ideas from the forums and making them happen.

I will say I didn't meant to come off nearly as antagonistic as I did, and have, so for that I'm sorry.

OK, that doesn't change the point about Gameparse and GINA. There was actually a post earlier in this thread saying that people shouldn't be using GINA, so obviously at least some people agree with that (I don't, for the record, raids have too much spam and too tight of fail timers not to use it).

Its not very widespread as it requires a computer running linux in order to work. Its one of the really really really old network-packet inspectors, which was impossible in win9X OS, hence the linux requirement.
It can only show mob loots if the mob is holding it in its hand(I think). Spawns and mob positions/class/vendor-content, and stats and everything else that is stored in network packets is also visible.

I didn't know people still used it tbh...

Gina is not really needed if you can set up the ingame ATs. But gina and gamparse are just glorified log-file readers, where DBG has full control over the content of the log file.
I really doubt those are problematic, as DBG can freely change the /log command itself if they feel gina/gamparse provides too many advantages...

I'd consider GINA to be a Gameplay utility, and extension of an existing mechanic in game. They're utilities, certainly not cheats.

Are you really in control of those other characters "doing their thing" beyond turning a script on and "monitoring"? That sounds a whole lot like botting to me. Being at the keyboard is irreverent. You're either personally sending them commands for everything they do, or you're not. If they're on a script that controls their motion, their assisting/targeting and/o their casting/ability usage, they're a bot. You're not at the controls beyond being able to turn them off faster than someone that has to walk from another room.

A constraint of the game is you get one merc per character that is highly limited in nature and typically sucks. Scripting your own regardless of paying for the extra gold account is not in the spirit of the constraints the game developers have put in place. Keep telling yourself that "monitoring" and "paying" is ample justification for what you're doing.

This post still going on eh? lol