Rebalance of Wiz/Mage DPS vs. Melee DPS on Raids

I'm pretty sure AE isn't the problem. Isn't pathing far more of a concern? And actually the speed at which current players spam various procs and swings? Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes. Wizards need help.

Maybe you need better caster aDPS if mages are also performing poorly.

Easy. Comparable to Zerkers and rogues. Zerkers are the ultimate burst melee DPS and wizards are the ultimate burst caster DPS. Given comparable gear, AA, aDPS, why are they not be parsing closer together? Wizards are out of balance.

I am not saying wizards don't need help but comparing a berserker to a wizard seems a little off unless you bring wiz dps up and give berserker more aoe's and portal spells (dumb idea)... it also is very different between real wizards that know what they are doing and people that make a wizard because they think they can cast spells and be too dog dps in any situation.
Mages could use a little better burst/group dps but in raids in the right hands can do just fine.

Wizards need help desperately, but this thread is just trying to jump on a "please improve me too while you're at it"-bandwagon. Useless thread.

Poor wizards and mages. I feel really sorry for them. On raids they usually do not get preferential treatment.
They need adps just as much as zerkers and rogues do. A typical melee dps group on a raid: Zerker + shaman, ranger, beastlord, bard - all adps. A typical caster group on a raid - a druid + 5 casters.
At least on a mediocre understaffed raid.
My guildie recently made a wizard, and we tested the dps on a dummy. I fired up burn adps on my bard and my ranger and he went on wizzy-burn. His 3 min dps was a double comparing to just a druid adps.
In my opinion, once the leaders start making groups like a wizard + druid,ranger,bard,enchanter,mage for adps, then we'll start seeing parses with wizards back to their glory days of topping the list.

But it won't happen anytime soon. Why would anyone waste a ranger or a bard to boost a wizzie, when they can be used to boost a zerker and a rogue?

Basically - I blame bards and rangers on wizards' dps woes. Those lazy missing bards and rangers.
Don't raiding guilds look for all the bards they can get?

I'm sure they try! But, I've examined a lot of guild's raid rosters over the years and I think that many guilds just do the best they can with whoever logs in on some particular night.

The issue with Wizards is the recast delay on their burns. You parsed 3 minutes, not a 30 minute event. Wizards can keep up with the other classes for a group burn, but their raid sDPS is trash. I am an ENC that is grouped with bard, wiz, druid and mages in raids. We all coordinate burns and synergy. Wizards are under performing. Wizards are melee'ing with NPT, kitchen sink type stuff. The class is the problem, not the aDPS.

They should be a viable rival to berzerkers/rogues/monks assuming no lag, and the same quality ADPS.

Wizards are not a sustained DPS class. They should suffer in a 30 minute raid event.

The problem is the Zlandicar and Sontalak events where a wizard should be in the top 5/10 and they are nowhere near that.

To be clear, by "suffer in a 30 minute raid event" you mean "frequently output less than support classes who play as hard as the wizard does"?

The issue with Wiz vs Necro:

Necro DPS currently ramps too fast.
Wiz burst DPS is currently too low.

Unless the plan is to bring all classes up to compete with Necros next expansion, I don't see any potential for Necros to continue dominating every single parse.

Wizards need some love. I think they'll get it in Luclin (prounounced Luck-Linn)

Wizards currently are only a meh sustained dps class. We stopped being a burst dps specialist back somewhere between when we became bad at AE and when teleportation became common to all classes.

Don’t try to paint this class into some bs niche specialty of burst. That accounts for very very little in the realm of raid events, and hamstrings us in group and progression content.

Wiz should be better than at sustained and burst absofnlutely, especially more so than a class that can tank stuff or heal stuff.

If you think I am anti wizard, you would be mistaken. I have always vocally stated that wizards need help.

I think, however, that we need to determine what scenarios that help should be focused towards. And I am of the belief that if I attend a sub 120 second Zlandicar or Sontalak raid that I should see wizards, berserkers and rogues fill out the top ten. And then you can start to mix in an awesome played monk in place of an average berserker (for example). I could even throw monks in that top tier as well, or have that conversation.

And right now that does not happen. The top played wizard will not make that top ten in the majority of guilds, and IMHO that is where the focus should be at for wizards. Once we get wizards into the top ten of short burn raids, then we can reevaluate the class and go from there.

But IMHO right now wizards should not be fighting the 30 minute parse war but rather the 3 minute parse war.

Why? There is no more "burst" like there was in the old fart days. Everyone criticals far too often now.

This is the most repeated bs for wizard dps (both by some wizards and other folks). Wizard dps should be sinusoidal-ish with high spots and low spots. But over any length of time, the high spots should cover the low spots (provided the wizard pushes burns). Except we all know that's not the case with dot and melee broken dps.

Zlandicar and Sontalak (with current lag) are actually great events for wizards most night because we can fire all adps and just sit on 3-4 spells while other classes depend on hitting more stuff that often doesn't fire. (especially composites). And usually our burns end just as the event does. I'm usually disappointed if I don't end up top 10 on either event (unless no lag or super duper bad lag).

thats funny necros are one of the most nerf'd classes and are made for long fight dps wizs are short brust sigh

Babyzerk is a time traveller from when that statement is true.




Specifically, from the future. Sorry necbros.

You can't ignore sustained dps, or group wizzys will suffer even more than they are now.

A good wizard class should turn that 30 minute raid into a 29 minute one; at the expense of tanking and healing.

if we just got rid of raiding and focused on grouping .. 99% of the raid topics would be null and void
wouldn't have to worry about who is not dpsing or parsing this or burst or sustained that in raiding . GONE .. groupers very happy