Rebalance of Wiz/Mage DPS vs. Melee DPS on Raids

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Armida, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. Szilent Augur

    I'm not in that list, I'd have included my own character's name.
    People like you should be ashamed of yourself
    Parsing was in EverQuest literally before those other games *existed*

    The numbers aren't meaningless, and paraphrasing Sancus doesn't make you his peer in reading them.

    If you're one of the "normal, sane people", go ahead & share what you think is representative. If instead you're a reactionary forum troll who thinks parsing is for elitist eaters of noobie toes, then you don't even know what representative would look like and context wouldn't help.
    Pryssylus, Skuz, Stymie and 6 others like this.
  2. Cicelee Augur

    That parse tells me that cleric DPS needs a boost...
    Skuz, Stymie, Zolav and 4 others like this.
  3. Metanis Bad Company

    I find it really sad that nearly every poster here readily identifies raid lag as the biggest culprit, however if you review the "Bug" forum you can't even find a thread addressing it any more.

    And it's been many months since anyone at Darkpaw has even mentioned the elephant in the tea shop.
    Zunnoab and Marton like this.
  4. Elemental Elder

    All depends on the event, and depends on how your groups are set up. If your adps is utilized to support casters, your casters will go higher than your melee. If your adps is utilized to support your melee then your melee will be higher. If all things are equal then it boils down to the event. Caster dps is higher over extended amounts of time so longer events, and melee dps is higher for shorter events.
  5. kizant Augur

    They aren't.
    Skuz, Jennre and Coagagin like this.
  6. Tucoh Augur

    I dunno, 1999? Maybe 1998?
    Ssdar, code-zero, Skuz and 1 other person like this.
  7. Kakgumu New Member

    I main a Wizard right now and can say without ANY doubt that Wizard dps is poor in comparison to melee classes. On longer fights, Necros and Rangers ultimately pull ahead on all our raid targets...and I accept that at face value. That's where they SHOULD excel. But, outside of that scenario, it's my personal opinion that Wizards should be on par with the best melee dps classes. And...right now...they just aren't even close!

    Here are a few recommendations:

    1. Give Wizards, and ONLY Wizards, an ultra-expensive AA line that reduces the global cool down timer. Just to give it some about 100AAs per level and each level reduces the GCD by 0.1s? I'd buy that sh*t in a heartbeat brother!
    2. Give Wizards and Mages a new line of PASSIVE AAs that increase the damage output of specific spell lines. For example:
      Ancestral Flame : Increases the damage output of your Combustion line of Fire Nukes by 1% per level
    3. Give Wizards and Mages a new line of PASSIVE AAs that increase the resist modifiers for each of Fire, Cold and Magic.
    4. Create an significant improvement AA(s) for the Wizard Familiar. i.e. the Familiar provides more damage, reduces cast time for nukes, etc.
    Point being, Wizards are overdue for some love! It's gotten SO bad that I've already started leveling up a Necro to potentially main change...
  8. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    What a pathetic post.
    Ssdar and Skuz like this.
  9. Slasher Augur

    Ok so I wont hint at it anymore.

    So you really believe every single class in this game aint significantly behind necros in almost EVERY event in dps ? significantly as in over 30% behind be real some dps classes are 2 to 3 times behind.

    Wizards are a pure dps class in a raid they serve no other role yet they cant even come close to what "others" put up.
  10. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    EQ would have died years ago if it wasn't for guilds having friendly parse competition. No one's intent is dunking on your fun by posting parse numbers. You do you. Maybe MMO's aren't the games for you - there's plenty of quality single player RPG's with story and fun game play.
    Ssdar, Skuz and Zolav like this.
  11. kizant Augur

    Yes. I would day that. Although, even if it we're true you would only have an argument for nerfing necros and not anything else.
    Ssdar likes this.
  12. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur

    /\ This man right here is honest! Wizards absolutely need a boost but they are not as bad as most folks seem to think.
    Skuz likes this.
  13. Zunnoab Augur

    You honestly think parsing competition is a major driving force in the game surviving? Parsing is a valuable tool no doubt, and that competition is clearly a big motivation for some of the player base, but I suspect most raid guilds have more to worry about sustaining viable rosters than being able to afford min/maxing for friendly parse competition. And even then raiders are only a portion of the player base. That said intra-guild friendly parse competition is vital for keeping people engaged for striving to improve, for any raid force. People opposing active parsing in the fear of any toxicity are unintentionally holding thier raid forces back.

    Don't get me wrong. Parsing is an essential tool, of course. Interesting factoid: parse toxicity is such a reviled thing for the Final Fantasy XIV staff that discussing it in game in any manner deemed insulting is punishable with moderation. Parsing is still a valuable tool in that game too though. It's a matter of how it is used.

    As in, "lolz git gud" vs. constructive feedback.

    But yes either extreme is silly. Parses without context may be misleading, but collections of parses can show patterns. As to the reality of analyzing those patterns, I'll leave that to experts like Sancus. I'm not saying I don't trust the feedback others are giving; he's just one of the most expert players I've played with so I trust his analysis.
    Coagagin likes this.
  14. zleski Elder

    In a raid context, where "should" wizards be on the parse relative to other classes?

    "Should" wizards be rank 1? "Should" they be rank 16? Clearly wizards have serious issues as a class, but I never hear a discussion of what the target of increasing wizard damage output "should" be. Without this target it's hard to engage with the balancing discussion because if the target is being routinely met by a good percentage of the wizards, then the others who are not at the target have some work to do (either individually or from an ADPS point of view).

    Before even discussing what needs to change to shift wizards to the "right" place, is there even consensus on what that place "should" be? I play an Enchanter and Necromancer, not a Wizard, so I have no skin in the game. I do what I can to provide the best ADPS for the Wizards in my group.

    Now excuse me while I don my asbestos suit from the old USENET days.
    Coagagin likes this.
  15. Tucoh Augur

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  16. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Man, I would drop some good money for spell effects like that.
  17. Petalonyx Augur

    Wizards should also be #1 at AOE.
    code-zero and Coagagin like this.
  18. Tucoh Augur

    Agreed, with the caveat that the mechanics shouldn't permit being able to AE massive numbers of current mobs until the servers can handle it without lagging the entire zone/shard/server/hemisphere.
  19. Hellowhatsyourname Augur

    And if zones can handle that lag.....

    Tucoh likes this.
  20. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    If tanks can tank that many wizzys should be able to AE them down.
    code-zero, Skuz and Petalonyx like this.