Real Money Trades

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Smak, May 1, 2017.

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  1. Smak Augur

    If players could trade any items or amount of plat for real money within the user interface of eq, and if daybreak took half of all money transferred in this way, would daybreak not make more money overall?

    Players have been using 3rd parties or setting up transactions with other players for a very long time. It was estimated a long time ago that given the average price of platinum sold by 3rd parties, that the amount of normal trades and bartering between players of items and plat was worth billions of dollars and was higher than some 3rd world countries.

    A real money bazaar type marketplace added to everquest would likely generate more money for daybreak than purchases of their daybreak cash. As it stands the only way for players to legally trade items or plat for real value is to trade with kronos. But kronos are not designed to be redeemed for real cash, just game time.

    For example a player may have a rare item such as cloak of flames pre kunark, they could put it up in a rmt auction for 100 dollars and if it sold daybreak would keep 50 dollars and they would get 50 dollars automatically credited to their bank or debit account.
  2. Khat_Nip Augur

    I don't think you thought your cunning plan all the way through.
    There are so many different ramifications on both sides of the spectrum for this to be feasible.
  3. Smak Augur



    Care to elaborate?
  4. Aurastrider Augur

    Have you heard of the term plausible deniability? That's pretty much the system we have in place currently in regards to the companies involvement in RMT. By having the krono system in place the company is turning a blind eye to the fact that people are spending real money for in game items. I mean seriously what other rational reason would there be for having an item that gives 30 days of game play, is tradable and costs more than a standard 1 month subscription. You factor in chase loot items on the live servers with 3 of the last 4 expansions and this pretty much confirms their unspoken agenda to make money off in game items. I personally have no issues with the company making money this way if it means increased longevity of the game even if it feels more like a p2w model for some people. Plus your idea is flawed from the word go considering the big boy farmers and RMT people are going to think to themselves "why give 50% when I can give xx% to someone else and have more jingle in my pocket or try to do it on my own and keep it all".
  5. Bamkan Augur

    And raise /baz cap to 100mil but anything sold over 2mil incurs a 20% tax.
  6. svann Augur

    If you have cash transactions that are real income then the IRS gets involved. Outside the game it is overlooked, but if DBG was to allow it in game and take a piece then they would be responsible to report it.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and fransisco like this.
  7. Smak Augur



    Guild wars 2 and some other games have rmt trades in them, if they had to charge or pay a tax it could be done. Any income they got from it would be the same as any other income they get and they would have to pay an income tax on it.
  8. Jumbur Augur

    That idea would probably increase the amount of professional botters a hundredfold.

    Besides, I don't want to play a game where loot is worth actual money, It would ruin the spirit of the game completely imo. Its hard to keep the spirit of "relaxed fun" when winning a /random is worth a 100 dollars(not to mention that this could be in the legal area of gambling?).

    I am against any form of pay to win.

    Ideally, my financial situation in norrath and my financial situation in real life should not be related in any way AT ALL.
    Tarvas, Fanra, Scila and 3 others like this.
  9. fransisco Augur

    Only botters who camp for kronos would support this.

    The idea would only ruin the game for everyone else.
    Scila likes this.
  10. svann Augur

    I guess I wasnt clear. DBG would not only have to pay taxes on their income, but if they implement the transaction in which the players make real $income they will need to report the players income as well.
  11. MoveFastRZ Augur

    Bad news y'all. Money you make off RMT is taxable. If you haven't reported it, the IRS can come for you.
  12. Aghinem Augur


    If its less than $599 in a year, you don't have to declare it. I don't RMT, but I have done taxes long enough to know that it would count as misc. income and anything beyond $599 would have to be declared.
  13. smash Augur

    But would DBG not also have obligation of reporting it?

    But my opinion is DO NOT PUT IT IN.
  14. smash Augur

    I agree on that.
  15. Scila Augur

    Currently there is loot going for 2-20+ Kronos ... you do the math as to the rl cost of one piece. To change from krono to cash in a player pocket eats into DBG's bottom line cash flow. I don't see them changing their profit margin to the player base. It's not good business practice.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  16. Fanra Augur

    I believe that a 1099 MISC form would have to be issued and reported for $600 or more miscellaneous income. However, just because you only earned $599 on a transaction does not mean it is not subject to tax.

    So, yes, you have to "declare" (that is put it on your tax form and pay taxes on it) it, it just means that the person or corporation who gave you the $599 does not have to report it. The person who earns it still has to report it on their tax form and pay taxes on it.

    Note: I am not a CPA or tax expert. Do not rely on this as advice. I can be wrong. Do not take any chances and use an real CPA, tax professional, or tax software instead of posts made in a gaming forum by a non-professional.
    Pelrond likes this.
  17. Morg New Member

    I am truly sorry to remind you, but i read a while back somewhere that there are other Countries as well.

    On a More serious notion, it was stated that the diablo III Release was mostly delayed by legal "stuff" regarding the RMT auction house. This is not something i think Daybreak would be able to pull off. Trump on!
  18. Aghinem Augur


    Well, you are wrong. Garage sales are considered miscellaneous tax, same for selling a vehicle privately to a private buyer. No one from a garage sale is going to issue you a 1099-MISC form. If it is not a primary source of income and you are using it to just generate some quick cash - then you do not have to declare it. Same with selling a vehicle; if you did not actually profit from the sell of your vehicle (taking into consideration the depreciation factor) - you do not have to declare that as income either.

    So as I stated earlier; if you pull in less than $599 in miscellaneous RMTs - you do not have to declare it.
  19. Fanra Augur

    Yes, a 1099-MISC form is only needed if the amount is $600 or more.

    However, all income you earn, even $1, needs to be reported by you as income. For example, if I have 500 clients that all give me $500, I can't then say, "Hey, all my misc income was in bits of under $600, therefore I owe no tax on the $250,000 I made last year.".

    Now, those 500 clients all do not have to send a 1099-MISC to me and the IRS (since they each paid me less than $600). But I still have to tell the IRS about the income I made and pay tax on it. Even if it was 1 client for $500, I still have to pay tax.

    So to get back on the subject, if Daybreak is involved in transactions where you make $500 in a year, if they follow the same rule, they don't have to send a 1099-MISC to you and the IRS. However, you still have to pay tax on it (of course, many people don't but they are breaking the law).
    svann and Pelrond like this.
  20. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    I think there is still a lot of confusion on 1099s in this thread :)

    As Fanra said, you are required to report your income, regardless of whether you receive a 1099 or any other form (for instance, even if your employer doesn't file your W-2).

    If I sell you a $10,000 car for your personal use, no 1099s would be involved. The same is true if DBG sells you a car. However, if DBG gave you the car, either as a gift or in exchange for services you performed, then it would be reportable as income and potentially taxable.

    I believe, in the case of DBG becoming an "auction house" and taking a cut, they would be acting more like Ebay and PayPal. They are not paying you anything, they are merely facilitating the transaction between you and the person selling you goods. There is a 1099-K, which must be filed only if a user sells $20,000 dollars worth of merchandise with at least 200 transactions. But they could conceivably avoid that altogether by setting a limit on any given user's sales. Frankly, if anybody was doing that much business on my site, I'd encourage it by sending out the 1099-K :)

    https://www.irs.gov/uac/about-form-1099misc
    https://www.irs.gov/uac/form-1099-k-merchant-card-and-third-party-network-payments
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