Fixed Ratio calculation with elemental damage

Discussion in 'Resolved' started by Gormgeous, Apr 21, 2021.

  1. Gormgeous New Member

    Ratios displayed on weapons added with the latest patch are treating elemental damage as equivalent to a straight add to base damage.

    Take this item for example:

    The in game UI calculates this item as a ratio of .536 by adding 13 base damage with the 2 disease damage to get 15 damage total divided by the 28 delay.

    Is the intent that this weapon should parse the same as a 15 base damage 20 delay weapon? Anecdotally, players treat elemental additions to the base damage as .1 to .5 it's value where this weapon would be considered something around a 14/28.
    Mithra, Baldur, Niskin and 4 others like this.
  2. Gormgeous New Member

    If a weapon already has an elemental damage type added by the augment, the resulting ratio only includes the base damage + the aug base damage + the base elemental damage. Any elemental damage added by the aug is excluded from the ratio calculation.

  3. Kodachi Elder

    Just to add, it doesn't have an issue if the weapon didn't previously have the elemental damage attached, as you can tell from my silly aug.
    minimind and niente like this.
  4. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    Good catch on that little detail. Sometimes that's the difference between finding the bug and not finding it.
    minimind likes this.
  5. niente Developer

    The intent was to display the full ratio, when I looked initially I didn't find any code related to partial resists due to elemental damage. However, when I looked again this morning there is something that does so. I apologize, and thanks for the helpful bug reports. :)
    Herf, Fuelforfire, Skuz and 9 others like this.
  6. Gormgeous New Member

    It looks like someone collapsed the augment issue into this one, but I was trying to make a separate issue.

    One for elemental damage ratio calculation as being equivalent to b base physical damage and one for the augment elemental damage issue.
  7. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    I missed that, and thought you just double posted and forgot the images. Nuances...
  8. Zinth Augur

    it's not a bug and whatever players "think" is the right ratio doesn't make it right... if a mob does not resist the elemental damage then it is full damage, which is what it should list... just like the ratio on a wizard spell... IF a mob resists sometimes/all the time, doesn't change the ratio, just changes how much damage is resisted
    Boze likes this.
  9. Baldur Augur

    That is your opinion, I think it should list the base ratio and then the ratio with the elemental damage added in colored like the elemental damage, so you can see both. Kind of like it does with bane damage.
    Velisaris_MS and Skuz like this.
  10. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    That would be my preference also
  11. Zinth Augur

    it's not an opinion, it is fact ;-) the ratio doesn't change if the elemental damage is resisted ;-)
    they could add a second one without the elemental damage, I don't see an issue with that, but pretending the elemental is "less" than it is, with a "I think it only gives X instead of Y" ratio is NOT the way to go
  12. Iven Augur

    I am wondering why the weapon damage bonus has not been included into the calculation. The current ratio display is pretty worthless for comparing weapons.
  13. Iven Augur

  14. Baldur Augur

    How is it worthless, they normalized damage bonus years ago based on weapon damage/delay and your level, so ratio is all that matters. There might be some edge cases where it can make a small difference, but I doubt they ever change the displayed ratio to factor it in.

    The only time it really does matter is when comparing to bare fists as they don't get a damage bonus, but you can't see your h2h ratio anyways.
  15. niente Developer

    Elemental damage works like so:
    1. Accumulate all the elemental damage on a weapon and its augments.
    2. For each resist type, if the NPC has 200 or less of that resist, do a roll
    3. Roll from 0 to 200
    4. Subtract the NPCs resist of that element type from the roll
    5. If the remaining value is less than 100
    6. Multiply the elemental damage by our remaining roll and divide by 100 (integer division)
    7. Otherwise add 0 damage
    Short example - a weapon has 10 fire damage and an NPC with 100 fire resist.
    If we roll 150, subtract 100 FR, our result is 50, we multiply our damage by 50 / 100 and get 5 bonus fire damage on the swing.
    There are a few interesting things to draw from this which should probably be updated:
    • If we have only 1 elemental damage, our max roll is 99/100 of the value and 99 / 100 (int) is 0 so it does nothing.
    • We do these rolls for each swing of a weapon if they have that type of elemental damage (i.e. if you have a weapon that does fire damage and an aug with cold damage it will roll twice for every swing).
    I considered adding damage bonus to the ratio when working on this previously but didn't because the damage bonus would add a type of invisible complexity and it's also fairly static for players.
    Here is the damage bonus equation which I think players have figured out already probably:
    1. If you are at least level 28
    2. If you are using a 1H your modifier is 0.8, if you are using a 2H it is 1.1
    3. If your PC level (PCLevel) is greater than the damage on the weapon (WepDamage), use PCLevel, otherwise use WepDamage
    4. Multiply the 1H/2H modifier from step 2 by PCLevel or WepDamage from step 3, multiply that by:
    5. Divide weapon delay (capped at 50) by 40.0
    6. Multiply by PCLevel divided by 100.0
    Since I didn't write that out very well here is the equation:
    Damage Bonus = 1H/2H mod * (PCLevel or WepDamage) * WepDelay / 40.0 * PCLevel / 100.0 
    As an example here's my 115 rogue using the 2.0:
    Damage Bonus = 0.8 (1H modifier) * 115 (PCLevel) * 19(Delay) / 40.0 * 115 (Level) / 100.0 = 50.255 ~= 50

    Your damage bonus in the item display window is used in combat as your "minimum weapon damage" and a handful of other things are added to it after the fact. I think it's easiest to think of it as, actually, a damage bonus applied to each hit.

    Edit: A player corrected me on a mistake with the elemental damage roll; if NPC resist is very low we don't do a roll at all and the full elemental damage is used. Sorry for the mistake!
    Mithra, Karliv, Nniki and 8 others like this.
  16. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Elemental damage is known to be nearly worthless, that has been known to players and developers for decades now. The only real purpose of elemental damage has been to put it on specific tank weapons when the devs wanted to add aggro but not damage to that expansion's weapon(s).

    While the elemental damage rarely adds much to the damage you do, it is fully calculated in swing aggro. Is this still true?

    The rule of thumb players always used was:

    fire/magic/cold = functionally about 0.25 dmg per listed damage on average
    poison/disease = functionally about 0.5 dmg per listed damage on average

    But that was back when mob resists were lower. Based off your calculation listed, is it safe to assume elemental damage adds little to nothing at all now in terms of damage?
  17. theonepercent Augur

    Sounds like a good thing to just get rid of in the name of server lag. Ele damage sucks anyway it won't be missed.
    Riou, menown and Wulfhere like this.
  18. Wulfhere Augur

    Even if true, the idea hasn't kept up with mud-flation for whatever reason. The elemental damage on most knight weapons over the years is in single digits. Current weapons are Magic+12 on 462/35 delay weapons (at best) so the hate gain is marginal.

    PS: It would be nice to see this part of the combat system removed to reduce server load. There are now more efficient and direct means to add hate to weapon swings (e.g. worn SPA 114 or 130).
    Riou and menown like this.
  19. Svann2 The Magnificent

    Yea it does seem to be adding significant calculation for no real gain. Off it.
  20. Wulfhere Augur

    As a counter point, the only time I cared about having elemental damage on my weapon was for RoS expac and its Crypt Robbers raid event.

    Monsoon, Sword of the Swiftwind has Cold+40 dmg and, if the situation allowed, I would use that to finish off the chests. The reason being is that, due to the elemental (bane to chests) damage, the AA Finishing Blow would trigger and kill them more quickly from 10% health. Same for fire vs the skulls so I added Purified Lava Vein augment (rotting in bank) to cover both cases with one weapon.

    Other then that very situational event, the mechanics of elemental damage has never mattered to me in all these years.