Ranger tanking across the eras

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Kalipto, Mar 21, 2022.

  1. Kalipto Augur

    I'm on Mischief maining a rogue. However, I notice a lot of need for high level tanks for group content. I'm sure, as the server progresses, the need for group tanks will remain.

    With that in mind, I want to have a tank alt that I keep well geared and AA'd. But this got me thinking, maybe ranger could do the job. I love the idea of ranger tanking because you do add significantly more DPS than a normal tank. While simultaneously, being able to easily snap/hold aggro. They get a lot of really useful utility too.

    I've played ranger enough to know that they can take hits fairly well. But, I'm not sure how far that goes. Are there era's where you simply require a real tank? Or can a raid geared ranger manage well enough for group content across most future expansions?
  2. Kalipto Augur

    Thought of one other question, how do rangers take hits compared to berserker?

    I'll be changing to zerker as my main DPS class soon and if it's possible for the berserker to do the same job, granted no great snap aggro tools, maybe I should just focus on the zerk. I was under the impression that rangers just took hits better - possibly through higher defensive skill caps. Thoughts?
  3. Szilent Augur

    Berserkers cannot do anything that defines tanking. Berserkers have higher base hp, and eventually the Blood Absorption AA. That they can survive taking a hit with sufficient gear is a trait shared with basically all classes.

    Rangers have protective weapon procs, some abilities to make agro, some self healing, and "any defensive cooldowns at all" in Outrider's Evasion & Protection AAs. There is even an actual Taunt button for rangers, indicating the historical perspective of developers that they should be able to fill this role.

    But if a tank is expressly what you want -- there are three classes to chose from & neither of these are among them.
    Quatr and code-zero like this.
  4. code-zero Augur

    If you're making a tank, choose a tank class~ Warrior, Paladin or SK
  5. Kalipto Augur

    Thanks for the info on ranger. Having the defensive cooldowns could certain give them an edge when taking on a named mob. I'm curious if it's really enough to allow them to tank most group content. Assuming best in slot gear. I know a mage pet can do it - so I'm hopeful a ranger can.

    I think you missed the point of my post... but thanks for chiming in anyway.
  6. code-zero Augur

    No, I didn't miss the point. Across eras Rangers stop being able to tank. There is a discussion to be had about how long Rangers can tank but at some point your Ranger isn't going to be a viable tank and it'll come sooner rather than later
  7. minimind The Village Idiot

    Well-said. I'll elaborate. A "tank" needs to be able to snap aggro (taunt or big bursts of hate), maintain aggro, and mitigate/avoid larger amounts of damage better than most other classes.

    Snap Aggro: Back in the day, berserker snare or stun used to amount to a "burst of hate", but today is negligible.

    Maintain Aggro: Today, a well-geared/AA'd berserker can generate a decent amount of hate, but they have no ability to intentionally increase that hate aside from a snare every 12 seconds. We either have our base hate generation or less-than-base (Distraction Attack proc AA).

    Mitigate/Avoid Damage: This comes down to gear and skill with the berserker. I can take damage pretty well. Enough that if I see a loose add on a raid, I snag it and hit my survival buttons while calling for a REAL tank to save my pretty face.
    Quatr and Kalipto like this.
  8. Gearrwin Lorekeeper

    The problem with ranger tanking and really every non SK/PAL/WAR class is that the piddling mitigation AAs have not kept up with how hard mobs hit now. Even with Outriders evasion, prot of spirit wolf and everything else running a ranger will still be 2 rounded by many named mobs. With the full attention of a good healer you can maybe handle it but so can many other classes.

    We are sorely needing a rebalance of tanking ability for all classes and don't get me started on HOT spells of all kinds. What the heck is the point of spells that heal for relatively small amounts every 6 seconds when mobs can kill from full health in 3?
    Wulfhere, code-zero and Kalipto like this.
  9. Kalipto Augur

    Thanks for all the feedback. For the record, I know rangers are not tanks. They can tank. But they are not tanks. At the heart of my question is, how long do they remain viable group tanks. I'm still not sure at what point their mitigation gives out and they simply can't keep up any more. It has to be some time after the 90's era, as I recall seeing rangers tank into the 90's.

    At the end of the day, it sounds like nobody tanks at 120 except tanks. That answers my questions enough to know that ranger can't be my "forever tank alt". I'll stick to a real tank.

    Thanks again for the thoughtful responses!
    code-zero likes this.
  10. Szilent Augur

    Lots of characters tank at 120, of diverse classes. But if you want a character *for tanking*, then having a tank class character is what you want. Just like lots of classes dps at 120, but if you want a character *for dps*, then the set of desirable classes is narrower.
  11. Iribabh Augur

    Rangers can very technically tank up to and including any rare in ToL and any of the ToL missions. It isn't ideal, but it works in a pinch. Is it ideal? Nah. Is it better than sitting in lobby because you can't "find a tank"? Most definitely.

    Hell I've tanked every TOL mission as a beastlord (not pet tanking, those mobs don't pet tank if anyone is in melee range). Just takes a good healer.
    Szilent likes this.
  12. Senlronia Lorekeeper

    can tell you for certain, that as a ranger main on Aradune currently in DoN, I'm comfortably tanking most group content in era as we move along I've had some issues tanking at the beginning of an expansion before i've picked up a few upgrades to gear, and even then it is only a few problem named mobs.

    That being said, I have an SK friend, and it is 100% night and day difference between him tanking and myself tanking. Flame lick is okay agro at this stage of the game, but I would not call it snap agro anymore. If someone gets agro, it can take 2-3 flame licks to get agro back if taunt fails (for this situation, I'll mix in one of my DDs after a flame lick). You have no option for group agro either.

    So in conclusion, a Ranger tank can work as long as you keep your defensive aa's maxed, and your gear up to date, but if your primary need is a tank, there are better options.
  13. Gearrwin Lorekeeper

    Were you tanking Zlandicar at 115 with a ranger in group gear? How about going back a few expansions? Did you tank Anashti Sul in group gear at level 100?
  14. Fintank Augur

    Both of these things are doable, yes. Also, Anashti would be 105. :p
    Strumph likes this.
  15. Gearrwin Lorekeeper

    Oops. Yeah, 105. I'm having a hard time believing that a ranger can handle those missions in group gear in era. Are you sure you don't mean raid gear?
  16. Fintank Augur

    It's all just a matter of perspective. If you have a real healer and decent DPS you can do most anything on a ranger tank wise. When it comes to just a merc healer you can still get away with it with decent DPS otherwise might have to use a dragon glyph to run through. For example, Rangers can absolutely tank Zlandicar as long as they keep agro and the group burns like they should. It's mostly about how you and everyone else push buttons. Lots of out of the box things are easily attainable when surrounded by functional players or classes. The majority of things aren't just a "raiders" only gimmick when it comes to class strength. Just have to play a little smarter and harder sometimes :)
    Strumph and Szilent like this.
  17. Gearrwin Lorekeeper

    You're essentially saying if a grouper would approach gameplay as a raider "git gud" then there is no problem. I don't think it should be necessary to burn glyphs in order to beat missions with non standard group makeups. This is a near 25 year old game. We are getting freaking old, man. Isn't it time to ease up on this kind of thought?
  18. Fintank Augur

    That's not what I am saying. Knowing what your abilities do and using them accordingly is not "raider" gameplay. It's just playing and learning the game which is where the fun comes in for most I assume. Glyphs exist solely as a power point to utilize for more challenging things, it's also part of the game. I don't glyph in group content but it's always an option if something is too hard. You can do most anything with non-standard group makeup, just because the group makeup is weird doesn't mean people can't play at a decent level and overcome situations.

    More to the OP's initial question though, the specific scenarios prompted have no bearing on overall class capabilities. Whether it's easy or hard doesn't matter in the vein of "can X do this". Will it be easy and user friendly? No, it won't be. Do you have to know what you're doing more than on a tank class? Yes. Can you do pretty much everything in the group game with proper preparation? Yes.

    The fact it's a 25 year old game means people have had plenty of time to learn how to play it. I'll ride my "try harder" train till the game dies! :p
  19. Zalamyr Augur

    My recollection is that it's around when warriors (and retroactively, knights) got their stances, which is CotF iirc. From that point on, tanks just get stronger, and stronger, and stronger, to the point where optimal gameplay increasingly becomes "have tank pull everything and brute force it". It's probably still possible an otherwise strong group to still do most content without a real tank, but it becomes an increasingly painful handicap.
  20. Orienn TreeHugger

    If only we had an aoe taunt/ability, I think it would be more viable. I tanked up until about CotF in group stuff, but that's when I decided to give boxing a try and made an SK.