Raids - How hard should they be?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mezz, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. Mezz Lorekeeper

    So I joined modern EQ raiding with TBM expansion. My guild could normally field about 45 raiders (and that included some boxes) and we were able to run some of the raids in Fear/Hate as well as some of the easier TDS raids. The cost/benefit of Fear/Hate was that the raid encounters were easier (some of them) but you had to spend a lot of time clearing the zone and you did not earn raid currency.

    With EOK expansion, my raid force got stronger, and we were able to clear up to Queen where we stalled. One of the raid forces on the server died as they weren't able to beat any of the starting EOK raids.

    With RoS expansion, it appears to be as least as difficult as EOK (we got OT raid to 40% the other night without really focusing on the raid yet, so I am guessing we will be able to beat it). I have my doubts if the other 2 raid forces still on servers (other than the elite guild which has beaten all raids) will be able to beat it.

    I think the argument for super hard raids was to slow down the elite raiders of EQ so they don't beat the expansion in 3 months and then get bored, but even with the harder raids, 3 months in, they have already beaten the expansion anyway. So the strategy of making things harder doesn't seem to be working. But the end result is that it has resulted in the destruction of weaker raid forces that can't field 54 or be as organized as the stronger guilds.

    My proposal is that the next expansion bring back a raid like TBM Hate/Fear so that it keeps raiding viable for the weaker raid guilds. I think it helps the overall health of the server as starting raiders may choose to join stronger raid forces later on.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Yinla like this.
  2. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Gorowyn should be doable with a force like yours. :)
    We are a casual raidguild and we don't have a problem with beating it with 45 players.
  3. Xnao Augur

    Ahhh, FINALLY. The It's too hard thread. The first I have seen at least.

    Awful quick too, two weeks after the expansion is beaten. Only four months since the "give us backflags or we quit terrorism." The thread where the casuals said they wanted to try the new raids at least, then go back and beat the old.

    Next year I will try and start a pool.
    Sagarmatha, Bobsmith and Metanis like this.
  4. Mezz Lorekeeper

    Yeah I am trying to convince raid leadership to work on Gorowyn, but since we got OT down to 40%, that will be our focus I am sure until it is beaten. Anyway, for my raid guild I expect us to be able to farm OT and Goro eventually, no idea on first T2 raid (that is usually easiest in an expansion). Be that as it may, I still think each expansion should have a zone clear raid for the weaker raid forces.
  5. Critts Augur

    Always felt like there should be a 1/2 raid that is meant to be doable with less people. Of course an event like this should drop less loot and coin.
  6. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Tbh, I expected the loot would be better in the final VP-mission since you needed 2 groups to do it.
  7. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    You give them too much credit. They will sometimes adjust the first tier raids a little during beta to make them easier. Everything else is mostly, "get this idea to work" and then they push it live. Sometimes making a "balance" adjustment at the last minute so things hit harder or hit weaker.

    That is why "gatekeeper" raids are always in random places. Or why something like the final raid of this expansion is no more difficult than the group mission. They don't have a plan with balance, they just have a plan for a raid and try and make it work.
  8. Critts Augur

    . If you want to know where the gatekeeper events are going to be. get into next Beta and pay attention to who is testing what.
  9. Sancus Augur

    Care to elaborate?
  10. svann Augur

    You were just waiting to mock them for it too, werent you?
    Zhaunil_AB likes this.
  11. Critts Augur

    Specific information related to Beta is not to be discussed on the normal forums.
  12. smash Augur

    Except ALL could read them, so there were nothing secret discussed..

    So might wanna get down from high horse.
    Chopin.Xegony, Sancus and Yinla like this.
  13. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I just wish they gave the guilds who didn't beta test the same information on how the mechanics work as those who tested with a dev. Especially this time round as so few of the raids are missions.

    Really starting to hate Sathirs Tomb! LOL
  14. Critts Augur

    I only own an ornate horse (DoN box set version) Sir or Madame. As far as all being able to read them (I’m guessing you mean the Beta forums) that is simply not true. If someone didn’t Pre order or get a key they could not read them. Also it’s not always public knowledge What guild is testing what event.
  15. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    This is wrong. I never even purchased RoS, let alone pre-order anything. I read tons of the Beta posts though!
  16. Critts Augur

    E gad
  17. Fohpo Augur

    I like to watch others' horse races too.
  18. Sancus Augur

    That's not true, you didn't even have to log in to read them. There's no NDA. You're welcome to continue to be ambiguous, but then your post is pointless because no one has any idea what you're talking about.

    As far as I know, the hardest raids last expansion (Kar`Zok/Ancient Dragon) were tested by different guilds than the hardest raids this expansion (Drusella's Vault). So I'm legitamately curious what you mean. Again, you're welcome to not say, but don't hide behind an NDA or something.
    Nudia likes this.
  19. Nudia Augur

    Variance in the raids and their difficulty/complexity is much, much more the result of who designed them than who did the beta testing.

    @ Yinla - I agree, they should make any info given to some available to all, at least at a high level view and without having to sift through the spell data. I thought they gave more detail on the raids in previous expansions through the beta forums, but I could be mistaken. This year was pretty scant. That said, they change so much that it's of limited use and they often do it right before or after the end of beta.
    Yinla likes this.
  20. Fohpo Augur

    No, no, no - my baseless statements are always proven fact and should be taken as such. :rolleyes:

    I feel like there's several melodramatic posts floating around right now and a lot of Forum Questers who are just out to troll. It's almost like the guy arguing over RoS difficulty and poor design but stated he hasn't bought an expansion since TDS.
    Sancus likes this.