Raiding Ruined on Mischief

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by AConcernedCitizen, Jun 5, 2021.

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  1. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    You are on the TLP forums, I doubt that.
    Xanathol, Duder, Mithra and 2 others like this.
  2. Triconix Augur

    You're right. The show I was watching before bed kinda sucked. Much more fun reading you whine about non randomized loot because you didn't know exactly what was intended or unintended ahead of time. God forbid you... learn.
  3. Brontus Norrathian hitchiker

    TLP servers are light years from the original classic EverQuest experience. I noticed that "classic EQ" is always trotted out an excuse when something is not working despite the fact the mechanics of so many things have been changed.

    TLP servers are not classic EQ.

    Classic EQ had:
    • naked corpse runs
    • corpse decay
    • race and hybrid experience penalties
    • meditating while staring at only a spell book
    TLP servers have:
    • instanced zones with picks and Agent of Change guild instances
    • pets zone with their masters
    • mail system
    • Cash shop and Krono
    • scores of quality of life improvements
    Darkpaw Games promised that all loot would be random from rare mobs. Now we are hearing excuses being made about "what was intended." That excuse is unacceptable. That horse is out of the barn. All raid loot should be random as was promised to the players.
  4. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Taking a break from my job daytrading to say lol.
  5. Atomos Augur

    I completely agree and am grateful. I've always viewed classic/era servers as an opportunity to make an old experience even better than it was before, and have never understood things like Project 1999 keeping hybrid penalties or WoW Classic's #NoChanges (which turned out to be a disaster for anyone who actually cares about the game). As long as you stay true to the spirit of the game/experience, beneficial changes should be welcome.

    I am hoping that the random raid loot gets fixed cause it's definitely more of a point of the server for me than the free trade.

    I think it would work out if sky/hate/fear trash shared pools, meaning you'd get keyed while getting some gear, then Gods/Dragons/Yael and maybe some others are shared, and then whatever is leftover is pooled together. Dunno about Sky bosses, probably just throw them around on everything because Sky sucks.
  6. Gugagan Journeyman

    We are starting to raid now after giving our casual players some extra time to lvl up. When we first heard that all raid mobs had 10 to 20 items and random loot everyone was super excited and very much looking forward to starting to raid and actually having a chance at loot even if they can't play 24/7....

    I do agree that Golems in /picks should have MoTM, but removing random looot from hate minis and golems in DZ's and reverting it all back to a "traditional hardcore" server really took the wind out of all of us. I feel that the way things were "fixed" temporarily could have been handled in a different way that would not so harshly impact the more casual players of the server. Maybe turn of /picks in the planes until you had MoTM fixed for /pick zones? Or maybe that was not something you could do as easily as removing the loot? I am guessing you had a good reason for doing what you did and that it was not just a kneejerk reaction.... That said, I hope you are able to reinstate the mini's and golem's random loot in the planes soon, so we at least get some Mischief fun out of classic :)

    PS: You made a great casual server with the random and increased loot per rare/raid mob and free trade, great work guys :)
    Brontus likes this.
  7. Brontus Norrathian hitchiker

    I'm a casual player too. I don't raid anymore like I used to. The less loot that is dropping from planar mobs the less loot will trickle down to casuals like me. The more that raiding becomes frustrating the less people will raid and the less loot will trickle down to casuals like me.

    One of the biggest mistakes EQ devs had made over the entire history of EQ is they focused disproportionally on the raider and spent less time addressing the concerns of casuals. Raiders who are on the bleeding edge of consuming content always get more attention because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The casual that is following the rules always get hurt by the actions of a few bad apples that causes a disproportionate response.

    I remember when the Planes of Power was released. Halls of Honor was dropping some decent loot. Again, by the time my casual friends and I leveled up and got keyed, it was nerfed into oblivion.

    A few people exploited the mail delivery quest and they removed it and it hurt casuals the most who needed a few platinum to buy their spells. This is a familiar pattern.

    Mischief and Thornblade was supposed to be different. This was a server that was supposed to be for the casuals. But not it seems that the devs have fallen back to their old habits and rationales. It's starting to seem like bait and switch. If this change is allowed to stand, expect more arbitrary decisions in future expansions that will ultimately impact casuals. I think Bristlebane would be very disappointed at how predictable this all is. He and other demi-gods are like decaying skeletons compared to the power of the twin gods of Nerf and Expedience.
  8. Grinde Journeyman

    Throwing my opinion out there:

    I came back to EQ from a long hiatus because of the randomized rule set. To hear raid mobs aren't randomized is pretty disappointing.

    I would prefer the loot is kept random (That's honestly the thing about this server that has been absolutely outstanding) and all raid mob encounters are locked out for x amount of time (where x can be whatever is intended in order to quell exploitation). Maybe it's 3 days.

    In later expansions is going to be tough to down every raid encounter that is good for a guild on a weekly basis, even.

    But as a new and hopefully staying customer I wouldn't vary from the intended ruleset too much or it kind of defeats the purpose of said rule set.

    Thank you for the excellent server and idea. I have enjoyed myself tremendously thus far.
  9. MischiefTLP New Member

    Bazzt Zzzt has been killed twice on Mischief, most likely only twice and most likely will never be killed again during Classic. Without getting into theoretical 8 Enc, 4 War and 12 Clr raids it takes a lot of people to kill it and it still drops one item. Presumably because of the pace of the TLP, group mobs drop double loot and the raid mobs worth killing have 4x the loot (16-20 items).

    This is not working as intended, maybe Lemmings Reborn or another guild will make a point of wasting their time trying to kill Baazt Zzzt during Classic for the sole purpose of saying they did it but it's a terrible use of time when better loot drops in Crushbone.

    Hate minis have a similar issue, some of them are more difficult than Naggy, Vox or Yael and yet they drop one piece of loot. At least more difficult than those three still means a fairly small force can kill the mobs.

    One simple solution is remove MotM from any mob that isn't worth random or multiple loot and let small forces clear PoSky for the same loot tables as Live servers and let groups kill Hate minis for one chance at a highly desirable item. Another simple solution is to make the mobs call their loot table 4 times. Another simple solution is to let mobs have access to loot tables based on difficulty, if PoSky needs to call their own loot table once or more for quest integrity it can still also call a Dragon or God loot table a time or three.

    It's really not complicated, if you stuck MotM on a mob, ask why would anyone spend the time to try to kill the mob once it's (lack of) loot is known. It makes no sense to both have a really hard mob and terrible loot. Advertising random loot and then having guilds focused on the exact same mobs as every other TLP during Classic doesn't make much sense. It's kind of neat that Mischief will have more Innoruuk loot in a month than Live servers have gotten in 22 years, but it would be nice to have 32 worthwhile raid targets instead of 5.
  10. Barzini Journeyman

    Can't wait to kill Quarm and ....No Loot! lol
  11. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers" - somebody on the internet.
    Triconix likes this.
  12. intensox New Member

    Everyone who exploited gets suspended banned tho?
  13. Doranur_Aleguzzler Augur

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I think this thread has petered out on usefulness.
  14. Kirikap New Member

    Don't forget option C: The devs don't like how you beat their encounters, so they ban your guild. (Conquest incident)
  15. Nyvlag Elder

    Probably true. Unless Niente or someone else wants to address the concerns put forth for the future of the server, I think all that needs to be said has been said.

    There is some merit in additional bodies coming out and saying they agree/disagree and reasons, but we all know that doesn't factor into their decisions at the end of the day (source: how long it took to de-toxify certain epics).
  16. Triconix Augur

    It's amazing when giving advice to follow the correct process/workflow, people take it so personally as if they are above it. The audacity certain people have to complain endlessly on the forums while throwing derogatory and discourteous remarks at the devs, only to be suggested to do it the correct way and follow the process, and be totally offended as if they are somehow entitled to getting their answers whenever they want, how ever they want. Then they go on the attack, flinging their sarcastic remarks as if they are so witty meanwhile someone actually does follow the process and the answer is given by a dev (shocking!) in that bug report quicker than any dev would have posted here. My reaction

    What's even more amazing is people somehow are aghast that posky and phinny aren't dropping random loot when most of their loot are items used as part of quests. Just a sliver of critical thinking and common sense would lead me to think they aren't meant to have random loot. I'm not sure why so many would think otherwise.
    Skuz likes this.
  17. Elite_raider Augur

    Maybe people are upset because they expected them to drop the quest loot AND some other random item loot? But would I know, I'm not even human ;-)
  18. EQDude Elder

    Okay, so when my guild runs fear on Thursday are we going to get good loots like Faceless did? Or are we going to get screwed?

    Because if the answer is the latter, your dev team has absolutely failed to do anything except piss people off.

    If the problem is as you described then you would fix the pickzone issue, not wholesale nerf the loot for every guild with members that didn't poopsock to 50 in a week.
  19. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    Let's not completely lose sight of things. As Free-Trade-Loot servers, these TLP's are great. There's just some disappointment about how the randomization works, and the fallout from hotfixes. I think in general it would be best for DPG to handle this server with the following in mind: More randomization is good, less randomization is bad.

    Rare's being randomized is good, but they're not the main mobs that need it. The problem is that rare's aren't the ones with interesting loot in my experience, the named are. So if that could have been a priority that would have been nice. Still, this is group level stuff and there are plenty of rare's, so it's not so bad.

    Raidwise, every mob that could possibly be randomized should be randomized, as long as it doesn't mess up other mechanics or quests. This really should be a focus, it's not like there are things spread out all over that need to be chased down. Raids have very specific mobs that drop the good loot. Randomize them all, make them drop reasonable amounts. This thread wouldn't exist if that was the case.

    Just for reference, I'm not a raider, I just know how important it is for a large group of people to put in the work and see relevant rewards. I'm also a developer myself, so I understand the limitations and that what we get isn't always going to be what we want. That is why it is so important to understand what people want, so that can be achieved as much as possible with limited resources.

    Finally, the biggest issue here is the adjustment they made to the mini's.

    Too much loot <=============> Balanced loot <=============> No loot

    They went all the way from the left to the right, instead of to the middle. That is the recipe for customer unhappiness. This response should have been expected in that case. I understand it was done quickly, and that staying in the situation on the left would have been bad, but going all the way to the right was nearly as bad. It's a lot of work to get these things right, and taking chances on new ideas means more of these situations. With that said, this has the potential to be the best ruleset ever in EQ, and with a bit of care in the fixes, it will get there without too much turmoil.

    Beyond that, communication is the glue that fills the gaps. If you had to stop the loot, then say this is temporary and we will get them back to a normal table in the next patch. It's better than nothing.

    Thanks to niente for trying to communicate to us on this issue. This thread immediately got better because we had real info, and no longer needed to just snipe at each other in frustration.
  20. Raytheon Augur

    I don't really understand why people (devs included) even cared that the golems were a dragon loot pinata. It's mostly stuff that is good for a few weeks until Kunark drops, then it's all useless crap. Why care if everyone and their brother gets decked out in classic dragon gear at an accelerated rate for literally less than 28 days? Chalk it up to Bristlebane being Bristlebane and quit wringing your hands over crap that doesn't matter, and let the devs spend their time concentrating on the things that do matter.
    Sprooce and Dythan like this.
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