Raiding Enchanter Numbers in ToV

Discussion in 'Casters' started by enclee, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. enclee Augur

    It’s awful, I couldn’t force myself into raiding anymore. I apologized to the guild and returned my stuff and currency. I’d rather do something fun than raid ToV.

    Major props to all the people that stick to raiding week after week, month after month, and year after year. I appreciate that there’s a base that gives this game stability that allows people like myself to come and go.
    Duder likes this.
  2. Lannin Elder

    You go from running the show to being completely marginalized.

    So as a player who's spent the better part of 15 years playing an enchanter , the above statement is exactly how I think most LIVE enchanters feel. Instead of TLP , a lot of us just started off this game , going from an amazing class to just blah. Sure we can do a lot of things ( buffs , adps , some ok dps ) but really were just there to allow a lot of other classes , in raids to do some pretty amazing stuff.

    I wish I had a team work problem for alliance , but that would require more enchanters. I never been able to proc alliance since it came out.

    I seen worse , imo , expacs for enchanters , I mean did ya raid Frostcrypt .....

    Once in a while we get a fun event , Sendaii , was a lot of fun , so was Mearatas , we got to use a lot of different tatics and spells AND it was hard. Doing 2.0 and 2.5 epics was kinda of a fun guild building thing back in the day.

    Once every few expacs , theres some event they kinda design with us in mind , hang out maybe in the mean time there give us a few more things , we will like them , find a way to get the most or more out of them being the creative people we enchanters tend to be , and they will "adjust it " for us. Its a cycle , I enjoy the challenge.
  3. Lannin Elder

    Allowing one class out of 16 to base their identity on being indispensable would be unconscionably awful game design. Rethink your world view

    Haha so says the Warrior !
    Metanis likes this.
  4. Tucoh Augur

    Thinking about this thread and playing on my first TLP, I think EQ would be improved if they removed literally all AE aggro options from tanks.

    Suddenly a geared plate tank + healer isn't the solution to nearly every group-level challenge in the game and CC from other classes becomes critical.

    Would have the downside of making a tank a pretty busy affair to play though, since they have so many different single target aggro options they'd have to cycle through them instead of just smashing one mob and letting AE stuff keep aggro on the remaining ones.
    Duder, Lannin and Petalonyx like this.
  5. p2aa Augur

    Warriors are not indispensable in raids. You can replace all of them by knights and you will beat raids without problem.

    No, just no, terrible idea. Wanting to nerf 3 tank classes to try to make another class more useful, and even so this would bring no guarantee it would work, is just the worst idea ever.
    Metanis likes this.
  6. Tucoh Augur

    It'd be more about making the game more interesting than making another class (or combination of classes) more useful.

    Plate tanks just generate too much aggro, there's an entire spectrum of gameplay that is trivialized by it.
    Duder, Lannin and Petalonyx like this.
  7. Tucoh Augur

    Also p2aa you're like a caricature of a lobbyist for warriors. I make a post that discusses reducing the scope of warrior capability and you pop up minutes later like

    [IMG]
    Petalonyx and Metanis like this.
  8. p2aa Augur

    More interesting for you maybe, but it's not my case.
    Regarding aggro output of DPS classes, it would be nice that you go out of your box group, raiding or grouping with top tier skill melee DPS classes. You certainly not have a good picture of the aggro output of these classes, especially monks and beastlords. Then come back saying plate tanks generate too much aggro.


    Come on, are you resorting now to personal attacks ? You think i'm tracking each of your post ? It just happens I read threads, and I would have answered the same if it was another poster.
    You are more clever than this, at least I thought it.
  9. Metanis Augur

    I main a cleric so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, but why wouldn't you do Grip first so you'd be more likely to get a hit from the DoT proc?
  10. Tucoh Augur

    Oh have some levity bud, DPG isn't going to take away AE aggro from tanks, this is a thought exercise at best.

    Re: aggro on monks/beastlords, outside of beastlords try-harding by DoTing multiple mobs or either class hitting the wrong mob, do you have problems with them taking aggro from you on the non-primary target?
    Lannin likes this.
  11. Petalonyx Augur

    Agree with Tucoh that gameplay suffers as a result of excessive tank AOE taunt EZ mode.
    Duder and Lannin like this.
  12. p2aa Augur

    I don't know, I'm not knowledgeable on AE DPS aggro of melee DPS classes, but I assume that if there was no aggro at all on a non primary target, that their AE DPS attack would draw aggro to them.
    It's a quality of life to be able to generate some small amount of AE aggro on mobs that are not primary target, this would be terribly annoying and not fun at all to have to target each mob to click single target aggro. This is something that you would like, but it's not my case, and I bet the case of many other tanks.


    What class are you playing ? It's not EZ mode for warriors on AE aggro, maybe it is for you as a SK (always has been) or a paladin (became the 2nd best at AE aggro with all the AE aggro boosts this expansion). That being said, I'm not asking for a decrease of AE aggro for knights, i would just wish DPG would improve warrior's AE aggro...
  13. Cicelee Augur

    Three tank classes have trivialized the enchanter class on live. Just like the enchanter class trivializes the group game on TLP.

    The problem becomes when someone feels left out, as if they are not able to make any contributions to a group or game. Raid geared tanks in the group game have no need for crowd control, whereas in the past there was some need for it. To me that is a far bigger issue for the heath of the game, when a SK can tank a dozen Velk mobs at once, while the healer patch heals and the four DPS classes just do their thing until all twelve are dead.

    Of course, one could say that if an enchanfer could mez a dozen Velk mobs at once, then the remaining five in the group just DPS down one by one until all are dead. Both scenarios feature an over powered class trivializing content. And if you are a group that does not have one of those classes, then it is high near impossible to defeat a dozen Velk mobs at once.

    Now I do not know how many Velk mobs a warrior or a paladin can effectively tank st once at max capacity. I know the third tank class can, because I have seen it multiple times. And I saw a warrior do 20 plus mobs at once during GMM before it got "changed". So I believe it can, and does, happen.

    When a single class can do that, it trivializes the game and creates tension from those that cannot. It is also faulty game design to create scenarios of a dozen Velk mobs at once (thanks downstairs pathing) where the requirement is of those classes to be present. It is a double edge sword that is a challenge for developers, for sure...
    Lannin likes this.
  14. Sancus Augur

    He was providing a weave/multibind for nuking. In a raid setting you always want Mindrift on cooldown for the Synergy proc (and Dissident on cooldown as well), but beyond that you're going to want to DoT up as many mobs as you can, mana permitting.

    Once those DoTs are applied, though, you're probably going to want to use a multibind for nuking before they fade. Mindrift -> Mindslash -> Grip would get used during Calculated Insanity, to fulminate another Enchanter's Covenant (might need 3 Mind nukes for that), or for mana purposes. Otherwise, Mindrift -> Grip is going to be higher DPS in most instances.
  15. p2aa Augur

    I call BS on your warrior tanking 20 plus GMM mobs every pull.
    Do it once, then med for 30 min to wait for your mitigation stuff back ? Maybe, if this warrior clicked all mitigation tools that can stack at the same time and he had 2-3 healers focused on him, and good DPS in his group so that mobs die fast and it reduces the dmg load.
    Do it every pull ? No.
    Even if GMM mobs hit in the low range and they have low HP so they can die fast, warriors lack self healing tools to sustain this kind of damage output every pull, even clicking all HP increase stuff to reach max high level of HP numbers every 20 min,they cannot replenish these numbers, without the help of external sources.
    So this max capacity thing is rubbish, anyone can tank as many mobs as he want if he has enough healing to cover for it. Anyone includes non tanks.
    I'm certain also that a warrior could not do what your SK does on your 12 velks mobs, with the same healing output both tanks would get.
    Especially that Velks mob dmg output is very much higher than GMM's one.
    I repeat it, the key in group content is the power of the tank's self healing, warriors are by the far the worst of the three tank classes there by just a very huge margin.
  16. Pawtato Augur

    Tanks are OP and trivialize the game, and enchanters are ok but just roll to bard and everyone will love you. They’re done designing any crowd control events.
  17. Lannin Elder

    Warriors are not indispensable in raids. You can replace all of them by knights and you will beat raids without problem

    So I get what your saying , a SK or Paladin , CAN tank raid mobs. About 9% of the players that play SK and Paladins , can REALLY do it.

    I'm old school I guess , hands down , one on one , 90% of the Geared and AA warriors , can stand toe to toe and tank better and longer.

    Rangers , they can tank raid mobs too. But imo hands down warriors are the real deal.

    I call BS on your warrior tanking 20 plus GMM mobs every pull.
    Do it once, then med for 30 min to wait for your mitigation stuff back ? Maybe, if this warrior clicked all mitigation tools that can stack at the same time and he had 2-3 healers focused on him, and good DPS in his group so that mobs die fast and it reduces the dmg load.
    Do it every pull ? No.

    Yes, because if your working discs , your geared and AAed , your box chanter mezzes and locks down the adds =p

    I main a cleric so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, but why wouldn't you do Grip first so you'd be more likely to get a hit from the DoT proc?

    Bro , your wife plays a raiding enchanter , LOL. ( I use to play Arcolin in IL =p )
  18. p2aa Augur

    No.
  19. p2aa Augur

    Play with better Paladins and SK then. I guarantee you that 100 % of skilled Paladins and SK can MT raid bosses without problem, providing they are in similar gear than their Warriors peers.

    He didn't speak of a chanter in the group.
  20. Tucoh Augur

    This thread makes me regret not recording all The Darkness Howls runs I did by pulling the entire phase of whatever mobs at a time. I think each phase is limited to 12 mobs though, not 20.


    I'll have to make a note to record me trying to kill as many mobs simultaneously as I can in the next expansion.
    Sancus likes this.

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