Raidgear does trivialize Groupcontent to the point of monopolizing large aerea

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Beco, Dec 19, 2020.

  1. Kamor Lorekeeper

    I am guilded with two people who disagree.

    1) Sends their parses to anyone and everyone that plays the same class, even cross server.
    2) A second person who demands self parses from everyone who plays their class.

    It's not just Magelo profiles anymore.

    Also Sancus has a very entertaining stream.
  2. GoneFission Augur

    Raid gear improves margins on HP, mana, and foci. It’s also a marker for understanding skill synergies and possession of AAs that most players with that much playtime will have. The game rewards raid gear less than it does the understanding of mechanics that accompanies that gear. It’s a marker more than an enabler.
    Petalonyx and Tucoh like this.
  3. GoneFission Augur

    And the appreciation for how free with that knowledge Sancus is, too.
  4. Cicelee Augur

    Dry humor sometimes does not come across to others.
    Skuz, Metanis and Cadira like this.
  5. feeltheburn Augur

    LOL really? there should be a gap
  6. Kase Elder

    I'm not complaining but,.... when I see someone who has full raid gear carrying 27k AC and I would assume raid weps to go along and people try to downplay the difference of a group geared in my case 5.7k AC beast, by saying its all about skill... I honestly laugh at my computer. I agree with others as Ive some seen boxes pull multiple mobs and have them killed within 1 minute or less...vs.. pulling 1 mob and taking a minute or >.... it's not skill, its about the gear. I've seen same boxes kill nameds in CoV just bruning them down like butter... vs a group taking 1.5> minutes? Again I'm not trying to imply anything should be changed in balancing, just that if you have all the good sh... don't say its not about that... it has so much too do with it. I choose not to be in a riad guild thats my style so it's not a complaint just playing Cpt. Obvious.
  7. Angahran Augur

    Considering that raid tanks can go to less than 90% HP in one round while tanking one mob I seriously doubt anyone is tanking 10+ mobs and not losing more than 10% health.

    Wow, 27k AC! I guess magelo still lists the AC as a single value not the split numbers.
    Cadman likes this.
  8. Cadman Elder

    For a start, you're comparing Magelo AC to in-game AC, and then plate to leather...

    My magelo AC is 27k, in-game unbuffed is more like 9.5k
  9. Kase Elder

    I stand corrected on that. I was wondering how that could even be possible as I don't use magelo. But I stand by the rest of my comments.
  10. Vaeeldar Augur

    I’m in full COV T3 at the moment - with righteousness it’s a hair under 8900 now. I think that puts me about 8600ac unburied. Give or take.

    HP is 380,000 unbuffed
  11. Cadman Elder

    Well, most of what you describe can and is achieved by group players.

    If it takes a group a minute or more to kill 1 trash mob, someone (or more than just someone) isn't pulling their weight.
  12. Kase Elder

    I feel your trying to lead me into a debate and that's not what I originally posted for. I described what I have actually seen in COV and done myself. If you feel a group geared group can handle pulling 3-4 trash mobs in 1 pull and killing them very fast within a minute just say... and then clearing not 1 cave in WW but 2-3 other caves and hall then that is one awesome group. Respawns are right around 15 minutes I believe. We all have opinions and Im open to them and respect yours...what I mentioned is what Ive seen. What I just described happens and its not group geared groups its more and thats what the title of this thread is all about. Im not asking for any changes or complaining about group vs raid Im just stating there is a difference and it is obvious to most people I know.
  13. Cadman Elder

    I'm not luring you into anything, observations are great, but the reality is for it to take a full minute to kill a WW trash mob, that group is only sustaining 500k dps between them all.

    That's not a "lack of raid gear" problem, and the longer folk believe that's all it is, the longer they'll not perform as well as they could.

    (and no, I'm not raid geared)
    Yendar, Yinla and Sancus like this.
  14. Bigstomp Augur

    500k is a tank and melee dps relaxing with a beer and a merc healer.
    Cadman likes this.
  15. Tarvas Augur

    Are you saying group geared players should be killing 50 - 60 CoV trash mobs an hour?

    I wonder what people think each class should be sustaining for an hour of straight play.
  16. Bigstomp Augur

    Broad strokes assuming the group is all awake 200k for dps classes.
    Make it 150k without adps support or a lack of buffs since you field buffed.
    Cadman likes this.
  17. Cadman Elder

    I'm saying they should be able to clear more than that, pending puller speed.

    A group geared group should be able to sustain 800 to 1mil or more

    Often the average player doesn't know which abilities work best with each other, or doesn't make multi binds or mash keys... Or just simply saves all their burn abilities till a named spawns, which would be better spent spread over a longer period of time, for the entire play session.

    All of those things make a huge difference.
  18. Tegila Augur

    Let me ask you this, do you think these same groups should be able to, without burn mode just 1or2 abilities, kill grik in his first drop without batting an eyelash? Because that's what that takes, about 850kdps. There are plenty that can, but most groups are not perfect groups. Unless they're boxed, most are probably lacking a shm AND bard, so no adps really. They have to med, more often than every hour(should be able to go half an hour though) etc etc.

    All that said, if I don't afk to smoke Everytime I finish killing a spawn and stay to kill them as they repop, I can easily do 50-60 mobs in the caves per hour in my badly boxed group of 111-113s with a 115 tank. I wouldn't try to do more than that due to medding, waiting on discs or abilities to speed things along, repops near camp while pulling down the hall, and those smoke breaks lol, but it is doable with the tank doing the pulling, taking time to split mobs so repops are even and discs aren't required or whatever, but it is doable. Barely, bit doable. If there were individuals focused on each of my toons not me playing them all, I'm sure it could be better, or if I just had a chain puller to make full use of discs etc while they're running(depending on timing I often waste half of visage/epic trying to split another mob) but it's doable. In the caves. There really aren't enough mobs close enough together elsewhere to do that without a dedicated puller whose DPS isn't even gonna matter because halfway through each kill they're running to get another mob. WW is SO spread out, it certainly seems like it is vastly made for solo/molo, but since those mobs don't snare etc, and are just as difficult as the others, that doesn't really work as well for most people. Always hated these sprawling zones where mobs are a mile away to pull from any actual safe campspot(without roamers)
  19. ArtremasEQ Augur

    With or without raid gear, & with the right grp Cleric, can tank 10 mobs and take 0 dmg for 40s, more if the cleric starts using certain abilities, Then look like barely touched for another 60s or so. - This is just Discs and the right spells. Just need 20mins to be able to do it again...

    Tanks have a LOT of abilities to choose from, and a well played tank can do all sorts of things
    and that is before we even start on the Cleric and its wizardry to keep me alive during 'crazy mode'.

    YES, Raid gear is better than grp gear, BUT One thing often overlooked is raid chars also often min/max everything else about their character as well. Chase loot, Type 5 Augs, 18/19 augs, TS items (Ear, Artisans), Aug selection /have the best augs (almost ALL current augs come from grp content).

    An equivalent, Grp geared group (not just the tank), played similarly, with everything, does amazingly well and can do exactly what is listed by the OP. (OF course, the raid geared tank will do it easier)

    Where the gap starts to widen very fast, is the 'Casually geared' player, that hasn't (for whatever reason), gotten all they can. Which is perfectly fine, not all will. Just have a care using for comparison.

    Cadman likes this.
  20. ArtremasEQ Augur

    This is where the argument falls in a heap. You're assuming the tank or cleric isn't doing anything. Just sitting there, scratching their .

    Reality is quite the opposite, what you are seeing is the RESULT, of the Tank, and Cleric/Shaman/Druid (whichever), doing a whole LOT of things. (note: HP Bars out of grp do not update as fast as those in group, and a log can tell a different story to what you perceive just looking from the outside).

    Next time, go stand near them (not interfering), with log on, and then determine if they are 'scratching their '. You will be surprised.
    Cadman likes this.

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