raid tanks and aggro disc?

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by strongbus, Jul 23, 2022.

  1. Conq Augur

    Your head tank does not sound qualified to be a head tank. Just my observation.
    Conq
  2. Iribabh Augur

    I totally agree with Szilent. He is one of my raid tanks, and as called out Beastlords have just disgusting aggro issues. I never worry and go 110% out the gate (that'd be auto attack on and I start hitting burns at 2sec to engage) and when he does the things he said above I can't take it from him.

    I also may be an odd duckling in that I will not FD to drop aggro during my burn. I mean I will hit the button, but I won't stay on the ground. 9 out of 10 times, if I don't stay down at least 12sec (2 server ticks) due to lag, my aggro never actually falls. I'm never going to do that, I'd rather hit a defensive and be tough and hope trust the clerics who keep me on xtar LOL. Tanks need to step up and do their job so dps can do theirs.

    It seems to be more of an old-school gaming mentality of holding things back that are either consumables or cooldowns. Better not use that Hi-Ether, might need that later in the run, said one fight before final battle. Oh man I can only use that every 10 minutes I better save it for an emergency; proceeds to play for the next 2.5hrs without using it once.

    Look at your raid event times. You take more than 12min for that event? You should be hitting EVERYTHING with a 10min or lower cooldown and you should be doing it TWICE (where applicable).
    Syylke_EMarr likes this.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    This is probably the key point you are making. Since sk have been raid add tanking for years and using spells that do not provide self healing, they do get dedicated healing from priest classes. Unlike paladins, so it's a game design problem that has infected game play culture. The spells I need to use to tank raid adds, without healer support, are not able to provide the aggro I need (in certain events) to add tank.
  4. Tucoh Augur

    Other than the guidance Szilent posted, I recommend looking at a parse for a tank that lost aggro and see if they are hitting all their abilities that Szilent listed.

    Warriors have so many different instant cast abilities that have hate modifiers that when we get on a mob it really should look like

    [IMG]

    An eager monks / beastlord may be able to jump on the mob and compete with a warrior who was slower by a few seconds, but that should be a quick pause to wait until the warrior picks up the mob, not idling for 10+ seconds of whatever the warrior thinks he's doing by gaining hate from auto-attacking.
  5. Wulfhere Augur

    Valiant is -50 magic resist check vs the target, same as Insidious, so it's not going to help in that scenario other then to contrive casting on Zelni with adds on ETW. Hmm does the slot 2 cast happen even on a resist? Checking ... nope.
  6. Szilent Augur

    not going to work unless you do what works? mkay
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    Lol funny. Casting on Zelni (while its melee vulnerable) from 200' range away to maybe, secondarily get witness hate on one or more adds to perform a primary assignment of add tanking. Meanwhile warriors and sks are directly engaging those same adds. Yep sure.
  8. Szilent Augur

    your raid is weird.
    Sancus likes this.
  9. josh Augur


    Very few of the spells you listed are good for aggroing the zelnithak adds. The resists aren't important it's the reflect. Even with a hate override, if something gets reflected it generates minimal aggro.

    pallys do have plenty of abilities to aggro them though, hallowed, beacon, fod, divine call and dissident are the ones they should use.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  10. Shillingworth Augur

    I honestly don't get what the problem is with your tank using their agro disc. At least looking at mine the refresh one one of them is so quick it gets bound on my taunt key, the other is fast but on the order of minutes so I generally keep it ready to snap agro back when it does go astray. Either way you treat them, sparingly or regular abilities, they are only a tiny drop in the bucket for any hybrid tank's available hate generation capabilities. Not sure about wars, don't play them.
  11. Wulfhere Augur

    Good list with the caveat that Dissident Force is handicapped too as its Dissident Force Stun cast is resisted or reflected.

    ps: can add Heroic Leap to that list.
  12. Baradorn Lorekeeper

    Sorryto be blunt, but this head tank is just terrible and needs to step down in this role. He should click constantly his aggro multibind during fight no reason to hold it. That being said, this behaviour of holding the raid the time the warriors deal enough aggro is not isolated, i know it happens in a low-tier / mid- tier raiding guild. Try this in a high-tier raiding guild and you are taking the door out fastly lol.

    Good list, you forgot Twilight Shout line in it. Also, even if Warlord Fury has like 25 k frontload aggro asap, I don't use it while Composite Shielding is up to space out the aggro mod percentages that don't stack.

    Warriors can aggro lock really only once every 20 minutes, while Rage of Rallos Zek is up and DW warriors weapons.
    Without it, a few classes that can FD can take aggro of you when they use special thing at start of fight, like SK their HT, Beastlords Frenzy of Spirit and / or Bloodlust, maybe Monks with their BP click +other stuff ? Cannot comment atm about monks as we don't have active monks raiders. As said, these class can FD though if needed.

    That being said, I'm wondering which AA is the massive aggro one for Beastlords ? Frenzy of Spirit or Bloodlust or the combination of both ? These are the 2 AA I notice the beastlords are using when they are at risk to outaggro me if my Rage of Rallos Zek is not up.
  13. Syylke_EMarr Augur


    It's likely their Vindictiveness disc phase, due to spamming high damage nuke+DoTs, lots of swings per second, probably proccing on every swing, etc.
  14. Vumad Cape Wearer


    Imagine you put a bunch of money into a saving account as a rainy day fund. Money set aside for emergency situations. You are putting so much money into this account that you don't have money to pay the bills. You get a notice that your bill is going to collections. There is already a late fee. You pay the bill and the fee from the rainy day fund and say, man, sure glad I had that fund, otherwise that bill would have gone to collections. Glad I planned well.

    Except if you had just paid the bill, you would have been able to pay the bill on time and put the late fee in the rainy day fund.

    Self-fulfilling prophecy.

    In EQ, the late fee is dead DPS.

    I'm not a tank, but Sancus will say that 100% uptime of IOG is better overall DPS than using it 1 less time time in a fight. Abilities should only be held back when the strategy dictates they should be. It would seem to me that the tank should try to make maximum aggro at all times and the DPS should be using their escape abilities if they get too high.

    Now when I was playing my Ranger and ganking Aggro by using Summer's wrong, I needed to be told to stop it or die. Your whole raid being held back because the tank is holding abilities back ot keep 1 poorly played DPS alive is a whole bunch of wrong. Let that one DPS die, they will figure it out. Point here is there is a lot of variables and it's everyones job to do their part.

    Note, I am an ENC main, so I can't gank aggro with DPS, but no one tanks aggro from the tanks I play with. Even other tanks sturggle to take aggro from a tank with established aggro.
    Szilent likes this.
  15. Laronk Augur


    If the SK can tank the mob without dying more than when the warrior tanks the mob then the SK should at the very least be in rotation for starting. You gotta let the other tanks tank sometimes. Also what's your "head tank" mr Warrior saving those discs for? If he's already losing agro then he needs to press them.

    When playing a warrior on a raid mob it really feels like other people can't pull agro off of you except if they're a tank and if a tank pulls agro off you they probably did it intentionally. Honestly I hate the term but not only does Mr. Head Tank need to press more buttons but there's a good chance that he's "toxic". Not only should other warriors be in the rotation if they're geared enough but knights get to tank things too if they're geared, sometimes as warrior you get to dps or be there just in case.
  16. Laronk Augur

    Also you want the tank to use all his agro so every dps who can pull agro gets to burn a bit harder if the tank gets better first agro then your damage is going to be higher and the raid will be over sooner with less of a chance at tank deaths.
  17. strongbus Augur

    i called him head tank cause hes the war officer. all our war are in a rotation for stuff. it was just him saying that wars shouldn't have to keep all their aggro stuff on cool down during a fight and that they should be saving some for ohh crap times. and that dps need to adjust to that. and other saying no keep all you stuff down so we can kill the mob faster(a few raids atm we are just barley beating enrage timer or going over it by a few mins)
  18. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Your emergency aggro tools are Ageless and Unrelenting (followed by everything else that's up at the time). Saving anything else is a waste of your potential as a tank.
  19. Szilent Augur

    (warriors also have the AE version of Ageless, called, with precision, Area Taunt)
    Syylke_EMarr likes this.