Raid content for the non 1%

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Windance, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    Bummer, were they above 28%? That's the weird threshold I seem to have in my head
  2. Lianeb Augur

    I don’t think it’s possible to get it for one that will not allow you to negate it. Meaning if they were all at 23 or below and you have not unlocked all the towers yet, you won’t see it.
    But if one is above 29% it becomes one of mobs the script “can” randomly choose.
    This goes to my last comment about the extension of the timer when all are below say 28. I don’t think script will force a fail on the 1 at a time achievement or at least doesn’t make it much more difficult
    Brohg likes this.
  3. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Theo was still beind dpsed down was around 41% i think and Eccles was at 30%
    Scornfire likes this.
  4. Zunnoab Augur

    It is more that you probably have a 50% chance at Obilate if you take the first two to 20, but only a 25% chance if you do not.

    I time the event, except the first dps and spider emotes since I forget to. Spider has pretty much no variance. DPS does, but only by a few ticks, I suspect.

    And yes it is the normal AE that makes Obilate so dangerous. As noted they root in place while casting and spam if out of position.
  5. Whulfgar Augur

    I do not subscribe to dumbing down of everquest raids.

    I subscribe to people learning their class and raid duties to an extent they themselves are a raid asset..

    Things such as..

    Running outta emots.. knowing where to stand in an active raid.. doing their class abilities healing tanking dpsing ccing.. to such a degree they are a valuable member of what ever raid force they are a part of.

    I do not think devs have failed anyone.. if a lower tiered guild has members that can not do the above mentioned things.. that wipes their raids..

    This is my thought process.
  6. Oakenblade Former ForumQuest Champion

    Sounds great! When can we expect you to start teaching classes? Is it too late to sign some people up for the fall semester? Golly gee, so nice of you to start up such a fantastic pro bono endeavor. There's a lot of jerks around here that think "git gud" is being helpful. Glad to see somebody willing to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. I can't wait to see things start improving around here!
    Zunnoab and Whulfgar like this.
  7. Vumad Cape Wearer

    There are two issues with the primary arguments occurring in this thread thus far.

    The first is that casuals struggle because a lack of focus or skill. The problem is that a failed emote to a raid geared player might drop them to 20% HP while a group geared player might get a Death Touch equivalent. This means that the stronger players can make more mistakes with fewer consequences while criticizing the weaker players who are just so due to play time. The important part of this is that the raid geared players live longer from their mistakes and thusly have more opportunity to learn from them. One mistake ending your night means a lot less active time to learn from those mistakes.

    The second is that the previous expansion is the the raid content for the <1%. Everyone paid the same amount for the current expansion and those who have less get less. I'm not saying it should be given to them for free by any means but developing just a little bit of stepping-stone content for the masses is a very positive thing for the community. Increasing the value to the player base helps retain the player base. TBL is an expansion that, at least initially, made many feel they got short changed on raid AND group content.


    I don't think they should dumb down the raids but I do think there is value to the community as a whole to Tier 0 raids and an easy mode for other raids.

    Tier 0 raids could be designed for open raids and unbalanced raid forces, to the previous expansion's T2 difficulty, award no flags, spells would be rare and / or from the previous expansion and raid coin would be minimal and / or from the previous expansion, or maybe even a few special T0 pieces equivalent to the previous expansion's loot.

    Easy mode T1 raids would be the exact same raid as the T1 event with the same mechanics but scaled down slightly with scaled down rewards. Say for example a raid has a 200k DD, in easy mode the DD might only be 150-170k. The boss might not hit as hard, but the mechanics would otherwise be the exact same. If there is a death touch, it's still a death touch, regardless of mode, for example, but a failed emote intend to maim but not kill will work as intended for players with less HP. Such a design would give people a chance to survive the event long enough to learn from their mistakes. The easy version would reward half the currency, 1/3 the loot and never any ACH or flags. These raids would be modified as "teaching / learning" raids where people can gain and understanding of event mechanics.


    As for my views on this, I very rarely miss emotes. I survive most raids and have saved raids when other people with vastly superior gear and AA had died. I was second in my guild to Zunnoab as a cleric to complete the Cliff Golem trial in ash and the second as an enchanter (1st chanter was with my cleric). The wins were pre-nerf, when the event was at full damage shortly after launch.

    I'm not saying that to pat my back. I'm saying it to point out that I get both sides. I work very hard to do more with less and I think there are a lot of people who do as well but get written off by people who face tank emotes with high raid attendance / DKP and thus better gear.

    I'm not whining that TBL was too hard because honestly I moved through the progression very quickly and had a great time. I just am not an elitist. I can appreciate the frustrations of people who feel they are not getting enough consideration in the design process. I always try to stand up for the little guy. Zunnoab and I have that in common.
  8. Whulfgar Augur

    I have 3 zerkers, 3 wizards, druid, shaman, enchanter and an alt warrior.

    Which do you want me to app to your guild on?
  9. Whulfgar Augur

    The problem with some on this thread ..

  10. Whulfgar Augur

    There is a REASON the same raid across the entire raid forces of EQ has different level of difficulty for VARIOUS raid forces ..

    Due 100% entirely to each individual RAID forces individual player's skill ..

    The raids do not change .. server to server .. encounter to encounter .. raid force to raid force..

    So to say that devs screwed up this or screwed up that .. because some raid forces beat it .. yet OTHERS could not until for what ever reason a later date ..

    So to anyone who says this is elitism.. I offer you the truth, And the truth is flat out not every raid force is equal player to player skill wise across the board ..

    The dev's cant fix that ..
  11. Whulfgar Augur

    So please some one explain to me why its "so wrong" to say such an such raid force who can't beat this or that raid .. needs people to pay closer attention an play better ?
  12. Whulfgar Augur

    Every single time I've ever seen a raid wipe .. 99.999999999999999999(ad infin..) it was not the raid mechanic's that screwed up ..

    It was a player that screwed up..

    So please some one anyone explain to me why .. its so wrong to say they need to pay better attention an play better..
  13. Vumad Cape Wearer

    Yes they can.

    If you suck at calculus, because you never learned algebra, I can tell you to stop sucking at calculus or I can help re-mediate you in algebra.

    You say that people should learn to play better but where do they do that?

    People do miss emotes. It's not always because they suck, or because they are lazy, or because whatever a person might want to say it wrong with them.

    Maybe they miss an emote just because they don't understand how the emote works. In my experience when emotes are missed it's rarely by the same person more than once or twice. If one person misses an emote 3 times they are probably getting benched.

    The problem is that one missed emote that wipes a raid means that no one gets to learn jack diddly squat. Making a raid that is scaled down in difficulty and reward is very reasonable and probably pretty easy dev wise.

    I know, I know. Everyone wants everything easy. Everyone wants everything for free.

    Except if the easy mode doesn't have jack for rewards, or gives the last expansions currency, then no one is getting anything for free. It is just scaled for people to have an opportunity to survive long enough to learn something.

    People learn at different rates and under different conditions. If the difference b/t casuals and top teired players is that casuals need to miss the emote 3 times before they learn how to avoid it, then they need an environment in which they can make those mistakes AND LEARN from them.

    I WANT the devs to design raids with triggers and emotes with devastating consequences. But those same events un-scaled make for horrific conditions to teach people who need just a little bit of extra help. Asking for a learning environment for those people is not at all unreasonable.

    It would take almost no resources what-so-ever to include it and would in no way what-so-ever negatively affect you. Why is a scaled event with scaled rewards so non-negotiable for you???
  14. Vumad Cape Wearer

    I wouldn't put a novice boxer in the ring with Tyson and tell Tyson to go ham on the new guy.

    I would put the new guy in a sparing ring with a patient trainer and tell him if he works hard that some day he might get a shot at the belt.
  15. Oakenblade Former ForumQuest Champion

    If you can convince Yimin to submit an app at the exact same time as you (down to the second), during a leap year, on a full moon, when a certified image of Bigfoot snacking on a bucket of Bumble Bee® brand goldfish legs while basking in the midnight sun makes national news, we will review such an app.

    Also for the record, I'm not arguing for or against anything here. I just wanted to poke some fun at the one comment I saw that had the most absurdity in it.

    Also also for the record, I don't have any intention of arguing with you. I peruse ForumQuest enough to know how dense and stubborn you are. Such debates result in virtually no constructive yield for anyone except maybe a few lulz.
    Sancus and Vumad like this.
  16. Whulfgar Augur

    ok .. let me get this right..

    You went on a tangent to try to get me to help ya..

    I actually DO .. offer to help.. on literally any toon I have ..

    Only to have you an officer of your own guild say in 4 lines of text .. no thank you..

    But I'm the one with no constructive yield ?

  17. Whulfgar Augur

    Raid last expansions raids ..

    Teach via lesson'ed raid encounters..

    No need to design content an take away dev's times on new content .. for new content to be deliberately weakened .. when all yall gotta do is raid an expansion or two back to TEACH yall's raid force how to move in emots an all that ..
  18. Oakenblade Former ForumQuest Champion

    Perhaps I overestimated myself. Uh... as you were, I guess?
  19. Zunnoab Augur

    The fact is most of the raid game's history has not been as unforgiving as TBL. If it was, there would be no raid game now since the the players paying to fund it wouldn't have kept playing without content to actually experience. Getting into a silly back and forth doesn't solve anything. The tons of interesting discussion over specifics does at least shed insight.

    If someone is being antagonistic, don't let them spam out meaningful discussion but also don't take the bait (a lesson I strive to remember myself). There is a wealth of discussion in this topic. I encourage anyone hopping in to see the last few posts to read the topic, especially the data crunching showing objective measure of the performance of the raid game.

    Specific discussion of what in particular is overboard is good too. People who have only seen raids perform well may not understand things that were outlined in the discussion about Prince Ralaifin a bit ago, for example.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  20. enclee Augur

    This is how guilds die, which weakens the fabric of EQ.
    Vumad likes this.