Raid Chests 0 loots

The people who keep refuse to admit that the new system can't be better and keep cherry picking points of data to try and prove it are not stubborn?>

If you notice the drop rate is increasing and it will be higher by the time that the expansion is done. It doesn't really matter what the drop rate at this point is rather the speed with which we complete the expansions

It takes multiple people to argue

Correct but this doesn't feel like we are on par for last year SAME time. This isn't the same system, what type of ORE that drops might be, however the amount of said ore at the SAME time last year was up higher in last expansion. I don't care about the future drop rate that will happen when it gets here. What most are saying is based off of length of time comparison from last expansion to this one we are behind. Based on the list of ores I posted to date we are getting less than 1 ore per chest. Thats LESS than 1 ore per chest on avg. Since you cant have a half of an ore in a crate anything below 1.0 AVG is 0.

Yes I agree LAST year we finished up faster on ore than previous expansions. and that is what you are commenting on, however THIS year we are behind.

Last year I dont remember more than handful of no ore at all in chest.

The issue is that there seems to be a lot of feeling it isn't the same instead of looking at data over the course of the expansion. Also it is a bit silly to say that anything below an average of 1 is 0 as that isn't how averages work.

So post your data showing we are wrong between both expansions.

And what is silly is the freq of 0 ore.

122 ore for us from same time last year. 122 > 76 So now I can say not only do I feel like we were farther along last year, I can say I KNOW we were. Now you show your list.....

01.03.23Apparitional Chest Armor Lining
01.03.23Apparitional Amice Fastener
01.03.23Apparitional Charm Polishing Cloth
01.08.23Apparitional Essence of Power
01.15.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
01.15.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
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01.15.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
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01.22.23Apparitional Idol Polishing Cloth
01.22.23Apparitional Hand Armor Lining
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01.29.23Apparitional Mask Fastener
01.29.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
01.29.23Apparitional Feet Armor Lining
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02.05.23Apparitional Earring Clasp
02.05.23Apparitional Arm Armor Lining
02.05.23Apparitional Hand Armor Lining
02.05.23Apparitional Essence of Power
02.06.23Apparitional Feet Armor Lining
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02.07.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
02.13.23Apparitional Mask Fastener
02.13.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
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02.13.23Apparitional Necklace Clasp
02.13.23Apparitional Mask Fastener
02.13.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
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02.20.23Apparitional Amice Fastener
02.20.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
02.20.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
02.20.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
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02.26.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
02.26.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
02.26.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
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02.26.23Apparitional Belt Buckle
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02.27.23Apparitional Earring Clasp
02.27.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
03.04.23Apparitional Essence of Power
03.04.23Apparitional Ring Polishing Cloth
03.05.23Apparitional Belt Buckle
03.07.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
03.07.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
03.07.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
03.07.23Apparitional Amice Fastener
03.12.23Apparitional Arm Armor Lining
03.12.23Apparitional Ring Polishing Cloth
03.13.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
03.13.23Apparitional Necklace Clasp
03.13.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
03.13.23Apparitional Earring Clasp
03.14.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
03.14.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
03.14.23Apparitional Ring Polishing Cloth
03.14.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
03.14.23Apparitional Ring Polishing Cloth
03.19.23Apparitional Idol Polishing Cloth
03.19.23Apparitional Amice Fastener
03.19.23Apparitional Belt Buckle
03.19.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
03.19.23Apparitional Cloak Fastener
03.19.23Apparitional Feet Armor Lining
03.19.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
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03.20.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
03.20.23Apparitional Charm Polishing Cloth
03.21.23Apparitional Belt Buckle
03.21.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
03.26.23Apparitional Essence of Power
03.26.23Apparitional Head Armor Lining
03.26.23Apparitional Cloak Fastener
03.26.23Apparitional Ring Polishing Cloth
03.27.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
03.27.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
03.27.23Apparitional Belt Buckle
03.27.23Apparitional Chest Armor Lining
03.28.23Apparitional Feet Armor Lining
04.02.23Apparitional Hand Armor Lining
04.02.23Apparitional Earring Clasp
04.02.23Apparitional Leg Armor Lining
04.02.23Apparitional Necklace Clasp
04.02.23Apparitional Feet Armor Lining
04.03.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
04.03.23Apparitional Earring Clasp
04.03.23Apparitional Mask Fastener
04.03.23Apparitional Head Armor Lining
04.03.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
04.10.23Apparitional Cloak Fastener
04.10.23Apparitional Essence of Power
04.10.23Apparitional Amice Fastener
04.10.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
04.11.23Apparitional Mask Fastener
04.11.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
04.16.23Apparitional Essence of Power
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04.16.23Apparitional Shield Enarmes
04.16.23Apparitional Leg Armor Lining
04.16.23Apparitional Amice Fastener
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04.16.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
04.17.23Apparitional Cloak Fastener
04.17.23Apparitional Shield Enarmes
04.17.23Apparitional Idol Polishing Cloth
04.18.23Apparitional Belt Buckle
04.18.23Apparitional Ring Polishing Cloth
04.23.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
04.24.23Apparitional Cloak Fastener
04.24.23Apparitional Essence of Finesse
04.25.23Apparitional Wrist Armor Lining
04.25.23Apparitional Earring Clasp
04.25.23Apparitional Necklace Clasp
04.25.23Apparitional Hand Armor Lining

There have been posts showing that we finished faster last year then we did under the old single ore system. I just fear that if they do make changes to how the ore drops again that we are going to be worse off then we are now.

So now you acknowledge we got more ore last year. Good.

On to your next statement you fear "feel" if they make change to the ore drop we will be worse off. Seems to be a lot of feeling it isn't the same instead of looking at data.

If no other interger or value or anything else changed other than setminimumvaliantdrop>0 per chest, than the only thing it would do is put more ore into the guilds raiding. That will not make them worse off.

Im all for you arguing your side of things but it appears you are the one that should be posting data to back up your argument, not the other way around.

That doesn't change the fact that you can still gear up faster then under the old one ore system. Yes, it does suck when you get a chest with zero TS drops but if we are still gearing up faster overall is it worth the risk that the next change will make it even worse?

As I have stated already Adetia has already posted data around the drop rates we see and how we geared up faster last year under the new system.

Looking at the bigger picture it seems to me that people complained about the one ore system making the non TS items useless. They changed the system in order to make the TS drops slot specific and changed the drop rate from being 1 to 0-3 drops. Now people are complaining that they no longer get a guaranteed drop and are not worried that the change will be worse overall?

You keep switching to Last year as your defending speech when the discussion in this thread started and is about this Expansion. The original argument, 17 pages ago thou I could be wrong im not going back to look is 0 ore in the chest is lame. Just make the chest have a 0 chance of gettting 0 valiant.

So nixing out how we geared up last year, how we geared up the year before, how much gear we will have in some random future after doubling of loot aside. 0 Valiant ore in the chest could be fixed to a min of one.

Take all previous discussion and throw it away, adj chest ore loot from 0 to 1 min valiant. Dont change any other setting other than the min valiant ore in the chest.

I have always been saying that the new slot specific system is letting us gear up faster overall. This is true because not only does it have the potential to drop more items overall but because you can sell them back to the vendor and the vendor sells a lot of them for a lower price overall.

I am also not saying that getting zero drops in a chest doesn't feel bad, but it should be remembered that there are plenty of examples of players asking for a change in something they don't like and the change they get is something they think is worse.

Id like to bring this post back as it seems the same thing is happening Waring.


Sounds like if nothing else changed other than putting 1 valiant ore min in the chest, you would be fine with that. (Like I repeated no other variable changing other than 0 to 1) So this sounds like everyone is agreement 0 sucks change to 1. There is no other discussion other than change 0 to 1

If the change was to change it from 0-3 to 1-3 that would be fine, but I don't have faith that is the change that would be made. There are plenty of examples of players making a change request like that but the devs didn't agree with that change and the players thought the change they made was even worse.

My only concern is that if the devs change the system from 0-2 ore drops to 1-2 that they may also change something else. Such as amount of currency to purchase an ore. And it may get changed to an amount that you may be done gearing later in the season than if we just kept the 0-2 system.

Personally, as a 70% raid attendance player, I am going to be done gearing sometime in June. And that is in a DKP guild and I am not even top 30 for DKP. And this is under a 0-2 ore system we have now. I am excited because then for the last 4-5 months of the expansion I can play alts. I would just hate to see the system changed and be done in August (not June) because prices went up cause people cried when 0 ores dropped in a chest.

Maybe a semi fair compromise is that when May comes and loot is doubled, maybe instead of 0-4 it goes 1-4. Keep 0-2 for the first half, and have the guarantee for the second.

I just want to reiterate a point that has been made previously in case @Ngreth ever reads this.

It's NOT only that we seem to get screwed over with so many chests which have ZERO "ores"...

... but... what makes it particularly galling is that so many other drops in each chest are USELESS for 80+% of the raid force. I mean all those T1 necks, backs, range, rogue weapons, monk/bst weapons, and wrists that appear to drop in an inverse relationship to their desirability and need.

Sure, I like it that my alts are nearly as well raid geared as I am, but I'm sure that feeling is not universal among my guildmates. Especially this early in the year.

I do not believe this at all

Jan, 4 raid weeks 2 raids 80 Coins
Feb/Mar, 4 raids weeks 5 raids 200 coins
Mar, 1 raid week 8 raids 10 coin per 80
Mar - Jun, 9 weeks 8 raids 20 coin per 1440
Jun, 4 raid weeks 8 raids 30 coin per 960
Total coins possibly earned by end of June is 2760 average cost of items off vendor 439 which means you can purchase 6 items, I will go with 7 to be generous.

If I take the drops my guild has seen (which is line with others here) 72 items thus far and i split them across 54 people that would be less than 2 items each.

Lets say there are some in the guild that don't want to loot items or pay as much DKP as you. You will still have to loot 10 Valiant Items FROM RAID CHESTS (provided you use neck earring cloak and 2h) or approximately 15% of your guilds Valiant items. Now you can drop this to around 8 if you loot a mask and a ting in anniversary. but still 8 items from chests when the average by numbers is less than 2 Might be 2 by the end of Jun

Unless your "I am going to be done gearing sometime in Jun" means T1 items. Then I don't know why you made the comment

Can you gear a toon by June? Absolutely, can you gear a raid by June absolutely not. If you broke down the gear and gave it to 11 people and only 11 people (provided perfect drops) you could gear about 10-11 toons fully by End of June with drops AND coins.

I don't need to know when you will be geared tell me when your Guild will be geared.

I put this in the bug reports...go like it if you want to see if we can get it changed

Another week, 5 singles, 1 double, 2 blanks. total of 7 drops for 8 events.
we closed out the week, holding steady at 1.06.

Wouldn't that be 7 drops / 8 raids = 0.875 ?

It doesn't take multiple people to argue, some people have multiple personality disorders and can argue with themselves.

for the week, yes - it was a good but not really great week. but no, in the context of this thread, it is a reference to my updated cumulative average (year to date) which is what i've been tracking for the purpose of this thread.

After two abysmal weeks, our overall rate has dropped to 1.01. This week, we had 4 "emptys", 3 single and 1 double.