Raid boss strikethrough, or not?

Ok, so their miss rate is higher because of another issue with gamparse, it is still doing things out of order, the miss rate should be first now and it still isn't. that probably doesn't change the overall chance to hit, but still, the fact that it's got all those issues for tanking just means the number isn't reliable.

By definition a miss can't be a strikethrough. If one is showing in the log, something is wrong somewhere.

GP always calculates misses first (well, second, after DA). It did it that way even prior to EQ actually calculating misses first because the way EQ logging worked the only way to calculate defensive checks accurately was to calculate misses first and subtract those from the number of attempts before calculating the defensive rates. The same applies to DA hits.

That said, there are currently problems with the way defensive tanking is calculated, and it's something I'm aware of.

I think the parses are ambiguous yet support my conclusion that hDex (+riposte chance) may now be bad for tanks. Look at the two highest swing samples:

Kraizzie | Total Melee | Damage: 47130779 | Avg hit: 50193 | Attempts: 1744 | Riposted: 432/1744 [24.77%] | Parried: 95/1312 [7.24%] | Dodged: 48/1217 [3.94%] | Defended: 575/1744 [32.97%] | Missed: 230/1169 [19.67%] | Hits: 939/1169 [80.33%] | Hit% - 53.8
Szintar | Total Melee | Damage: 44215357 | Avg hit: 51533 | Attempts: 2053 | Riposted: 921/2053 [44.86%] | Parried: 84/1132 [7.42%] | Dodged: 4/1048 [0.38%] | Defended: 1009/2053 [49.15%] | Missed: 186/1044 [17.82%] | Hits: 858/1044 [82.18%] | Hit% - 41.8

The swing attempts is directly proportional to the riposte rate, i.e. Szintar's ripostes might have caused that many more swing attempts by the mob. Dangerous.

Btw 44% riposte rate seems quite high relative to the other defense percentages in your parse. Just how much hDex does Szintar have? You sure he did not use Furious?

well that's not really what I mean, I'm just referring to the fact that you subtract the number of each successful defensive ability from the total before you calculate the next ones percentage. so for instance raago didn't miss 143 out of 479 attempts, he missed 143 out of 835 attempts

you need to read what i've said about it, the riposte parsing on gamparse isn't working right, beimeith is in the thread so i don't want to say much more cuz I'm sure I'm wrong in some way lol, but ripostes are not correct.

It's parsing the diminishing returns of defense checks, true. I don't see anything wrong with that part, assuming the ordering is correct. The miss/hit percentages use only the remainder of undefended swings as their denominator. I agree that the Miss percentage should be against total swings, as a true measure of Evasion. Likewise for Hits percentage and Accuracy metric.

It's been changed internally, just not in the version that is available to everyone. This is what the table construction looks like. It includes / breaks down a lot more things (lucky defensives, staff/shield block).

The main issue is that it is possible to display TOO much information. I use a 4k monitor and can't display all of it at once. Half of them are going to be hidden by default, (raw numbers mostly since %'s are generally better than the raw numbers) though it is configurable what you want to see.

Even if you are correct that the Riposte rate is responsible for the increased Attempt rate - I think the Hit% or miss rate more than offsets that.

The riposte rate is amazingly high - and has only been that high since ToL. Szintar's HDex is in the 2900 range. Same with Raago.

[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 19959 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 54864 points of damage. (Strikethrough)

[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 19959 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 43697 points of damage. (Strikethrough)

[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte!
[21:34:29 2022] You bash Keltakun, Last Word for 19725 points of damage. (Riposte Critical)
[21:34:29 2022] You slash Keltakun, Last Word for 66100 points of damage. (Riposte Critical)

[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 19959 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 25281 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough)

[21:34:29 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to bash YOU, but YOU riposte!
[21:34:29 2022] You slash Keltakun, Last Word for 66100 points of damage. (Riposte Critical)


[21:34:31 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!

[21:34:31 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but misses!

[21:34:31 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:31 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:31 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow! (Riposte Strikethrough)

[21:34:31 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:31 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:31 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 4752 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough)


[21:34:32 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:32 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:32 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 4254 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough)

[21:34:32 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:32 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:32 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 57185 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough)

[21:34:32 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:32 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 11322 points of damage. (Strikethrough)


[21:34:34 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:34 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 47614 points of damage. (Strikethrough)

[21:34:34 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte!
[21:34:34 2022] You bash Keltakun, Last Word for 20250 points of damage. (Riposte Lucky Critical)
[21:34:34 2022] You slash Keltakun, Last Word for 23820 points of damage. (Riposte)
[21:34:34 2022] You slash Keltakun, Last Word for 60427 points of damage. (Riposte)

[21:34:34 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:34 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:34 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 64364 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough)


[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:36 2022] You begin casting Crippling Snare.
[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word resisted your Crippling Snare!
[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 28936 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough)

[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 51269 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough)

[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 51269 points of damage. (Strikethrough)

[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte! (Strikethrough)
[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word is pierced by YOUR thorns for 14028 points of non-melee damage.
[21:34:36 2022] Keltakun, Last Word hits YOU for 11322 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough)

So, in the above, manually counted:
Attempts: 19
Ripostes (raw): 12
Riposte Strikethroughs: 9
Successful Ripostes: 3 (12-9)
Successful Parries: 1
Misses: 1
Successfully Defended: 4 (3+1)
Absorb (Rune): 1
Hits that did damage: 13



Now you might ask: Why does it show 9/12 | 75% for strikethrough?

The answer is: It is using riposte to calculate the strikethrough percentage, hence 9/12. If you manually count you will see there were 14 strikethroughs out of 17 attempts = 82.35%.

The other 5 strikethroughs didn't have a defensive message preceding it, but would either have been a parry or a dodge. So the strikethrough rate for that is 5/6 (19A-1M-12R = 6) = 83.33%

However, realistically the strikethrough rate is the same for all defensive checks, so over a long enough parse, the numbers will average out the same, it is just that 19 attempts is a small enough sample size that the numbers haven't averaged out yet.

I've been told by other people in the guild that use Log Parser show much lower discrepancies between the tanks. Will DL Log Parser and follow up with new numbers.

What are you trying to say here?

That's great news!

Taking previous parse as an example of basic corrections I think are needed:

Raago | Total Melee | Damage: 21669501 | Avg hit: 64493 | Attempts: 835 | Riposted: 313/692835 [45.2337.49%] | Parried: 42/379522 [11.088.05%] | Dodged: 1/337480 [0.290.21%] | Defended: 356/692835 [51.4442.63%] | Missed: 143/835479 [17.1229.85%] | Hits: 336/835479 [40.2370.15%] | Hit%: 40.2

Avoidance (evasion + defended) metric would be (1 - Hits%) = 59.76%
Accuracy metric would be (1 - Missed%) = 82.88%

Hits% is damaging swings metric (old Hit%)
Hit% is redundant

Glossary:

Attempts = 835
M-denom = Attempts = 835
R-denom = M-denom - 143 = 692
P-denom = R-denom - 313 = 379
D-denom = P-denom - 42 = 337
Def-denom = Attempts - 143 = 692

I don't know yet myself. Using my corrected parse (prev post), we can see that Raago's avoidance was 59.76%.

Consider that a mob (i.e. CoV/ToV) with a 90% strikethrough and 90% riposte chance will add e.g. 4 of 6 player swings per round to their own round of attacks, regardless. That's 1-2 extra swings per round that will damage Raago on average. It's safer not to dual wield, triple, flurry, as a tank.

Against a player with 100% riposte chance, I'm concerned that the mob is getting two chances to damage the player on each swing attempt, because of mob's high strikethrough and that patch. But Beimeith is dissuading me from that.

Beimeith posted in another thread that 2500 HDex gives 100% riposte chance. Is it the mob's strikethrough that is reducing the parsed percentage?

I wonder what is the breakdown for HAgi and dodge chance (or miss chance). Anyone?

There are two forms of strikethrough, heroic and regular. Both reduce that percentage. Heroic Strikethrough exists intentionally to counteract having high defenses because of heroics.

So, if you have 2500 HDex, at one point in the calculation you will have 100% riposte. Then heroic strikethrough will reduce that somewhat. But it was still possible to reach 100% in older content if you had enough to overpower Hstrikethrough.

That was the whole problem with Monks being unkillable in TDS zones a while back. I think a cap was added so it's impossible to ever hit 100% now.

That said, I may have been partially mistaken. I was under the impression that both Hstrikethrough and regular strikethrough gave a (strikethrough) message, but that may not be the case.

Hagi is also 25 points for 1% dodge.

Apparently 2900 HDex is worth only 45% riposte success for Raago vs AHR's strikethrough. If it's capped, the devs usually like to do about 5% for thresholds like that. So we can guess that AHR has her own strikethrough success of about 50%.

Also, clearly, HDex doesn't offer the same boost to parry/block. Do we know that breakdown?

It has been a long long time even thinking about this but iirc it was 0.8% riposte 0.8% parry or block (can’t remember) per 25 points that is why hdex was more favorable because it gave a 1.6:1 ratio vs hagi

Where is Riou when you need him

Okay, and so once you reach 2500+ on either heroic stat, then any one one of: riposte, parry/block, or dodge, should confer 100% (minus cap) success at defending against every single swing. However, we do not see that in the parses. Something about the theory is off since the TDS-era monk (and subsequent patch).

50% isn't high enough. It's higher than that. HDex gives the same amount to Parry (and I assume Block for monk/beastlord)

It's not off, and it wasn't "TDS-era" monks. It was Monks in ToV? CoV? Era gear going back to TDS content (tier 1-2?) and having enough Heroic Dex to overpower the strikethrough from that era.

You can see this NOW by going back to older content yourself. Go back to something like RoF and see how often you get hit. Almost never, though since they capped it obviously something will get through eventually.

This is a parse from Zelnithak against a warrior. I'm not sure what their heroics are though.



20.26% Miss
16.71% Riposte
00.09% Lucky Riposte
12.42% Parry
02.90% Dodge
00.64% Shield Block
29.97% Defended
00.09% Luckily Defended
70.41% Strikethrough