Raid AE Healing

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Saph, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Saph New Member

    I am currently a cleric in a "moderate" raiding guild over on the Cazic Server. We have managed to put down most of TBL targets (with the exception of Mearatus) at least a few (3+) times.

    Generally what gets us is a serious lack of AE healing, specifically the events I am thinking about are GMM 2 (the exhibite one), Aalishai, and and Empyr 1 (the one with 4 auras and 4 bosses).

    As a note for the Empyr 1 raid when I claim AE damage I am not referring to the large line of sight DD (the 1 that goes off followed by all of the spiders)

    Currently we only have 2 (sometimes 3) Shaman that raid with us and generally they are really good about splash healing; however, there are gaps in that AE healing or simply too much damage for them to outright heal a poorly timed AE. Generally as it stands either they die because of X (either a loose add, bad AE, lack of gear, etc) which then means the NEXT AE kills Y members in the raid, or they are not able to outright power through the damage of said AE or X and keep Y members healed and alive.

    I have started to cast Mending Splash more often to help heal some of that damage, but generally find my tanks are dangerously bouncing close to death if I cast it too often or my tank ends up taking a bad spike.

    I want to know if there is something else our team can do to try and keep everyone alive (we generally are about 45 strong for a typical raid night and outside of 5 Clerics, 2 Druids, 2 (sometimes 3) Shaman, and 2 paladins (since they can also splash heal to some degree) if there is anything our priest team can do to help keep our raid force more alive on some of the heavy AE damage events currently and possibly moving forward in the future?

    Thanks in advance for any help some of the more successful raid teams may be willing to share here (or even if you PM me some ideas too that would be great) I'm just a cleric trying to make some of the more difficult raids a bit smoother overall.
  2. Maedhros Augur

    Are you sure you're on the Cazic server? I've never heard of any guild that fits the description you're giving on Cazic.
  3. Brohg Augur

    It's my strong suspicion that the "lack of AE healing" is actually lack of "people respecting that AE heals doesn't mean zone-wide heals" -- they're not where they need to be for Alliance & Squalls to keep them healthy.

    Ask the shm who they're targeting with their Squalls. It should be a nice reliable rog or mnk, whoever's the MA probably; could be their own pet doggie, really not a bad option there; generally not a tank, pushing back against boss dps is the cle job, and tanks mostly fight opposite the peloton or run off to manage positioning & stuff. Use /rmark to highlight that targeted character for the rest of the raid to be within 50' of. The rest of the raid super-including-we're-definitely-talking-straight-to-YOU casters who think we're still playing Luclin so they're across the room "mysteriously dying" where it's "safer"
    Sancus likes this.
  4. Conq Augur

    Bank your Tranquil Blessings, rotate some Celestial Regenerations, Spirit of the Wood, Ancestral Aids. With your number of healers (5 clr, 3 sha, 2 dru) that's ~28ish minutes of non stop AE heal over time. Or you can stack some of those for more punch per minute. You can also stack some Issuance of Mercy casts when additional AE heals would be good. You can drop up to 10 (each cleric can drop 2 at once - using Forceful Rejuvenation) of those at one time (they stack) or 2 at once, etc. I'm assuming you're keeping your tanks Alliance running full time as well?

    Pano likes this.
  5. Tour Augur

    Brohg brings up a good point.

    I see some clr who have for example a grp message saying when they are casting a grp heal, but I see the group no where near them. Part of that I think is because so many are used to single target heals having generous ranges, and of course if they were OOR it wouldn't even fire in the first place. It's easy for some to fire off some grp or aoe healing and think they're doing more than they really are.

    I can forgive non-healers for not knowing the range of other classes spells and where maximal point of impact is. But when it is quite clear the instructions are to bunch up on the name or other point for max healing (and aDPS, etc) quite a few people are just "sort of near" the name. All AoE healing has very tight range. Even the more generous grp heals are only 100 feet.

    Can't say if that is the issue you're dealing with, Saph. But it is a good first place to start. It's easy low hanging fruit - range.

    Are your shm topping the overall raid wise parse by wide margins? Rain on or near cool-down?
  6. Brohg Augur

    (which means four per minute)(also doubling them with Frostbitten Gift, so four pairs of GiftSquall)
  7. Bigstomp Augur

    Event 2 specifically:
    Have tanks kite and bring one maybe 2 (depends on your dps) mob in at a time.

    Have people in range for AE heals.
    Have tanks not take unneeded damage.

    Event 2 has very clear decals of where they ae is going to happen. Tanks not tanking should not be in there.
    Why make the healers work harder.

    DPS shouldn't die if the tanks don't bring in more than 1 AE'ing mob at once.

    It's less about healing than it is avoiding the need to heal.

    Edit: You're also short about a group, that doesn't help but different strats work for different raid teams. Some events can be much harder if you can't just make a mob disappear (which saves both tanks and healers).
  8. Allayna Augur

    Recruit more paladins? Gift of Life has a range of 400’. If your paladins aren’t using that amazing upgrade then they are doing your force a disservice. We time ours for the heavier dmg portions to mitigate deaths....

    I also didn’t see a single mention of the priest alliances. Learn them, use them, enjoy massive AE healing...
  9. Veritas New Member

  10. Laronk Augur

    Outside of the raid game, we paladins are like unicorns in real life, they're hard to find but they're real! I think the low personal dps results in lots of would be paladins playing SKs instead. SKs are a dime a dozen though. Part of it is maybe the players too, there was a group looking for a healer for their HOS group and I offered to be their healer (I can tank and be the healer there easily) and they wanted a "real" healer instead. But that's off topic.

    Back on topic, on the raids I go to with my paladin or the other raids I attend as my shaman. Some people are not standing where they should stand and like others here have said sometimes the tank isn't a good target for a shaman surge.

    Also healing alliance has a small range, the shaman one has 60 and cleric / druid is smaller I think so when possible you want to keep the raid as tight as possible so they get all the alliance procs.
  11. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Another thing to remember is your healing alliances and that the overall power of them varies between each of the 3 priests including range so depending on the fight you might be better using one of the other.
  12. Allayna Augur

    Please learn how to quote. I did not say all of what you misquoted me as saying and you actually put YOUR words, into what you are quoting me as saying.

    Also, once every 20 minutes is overpowered, get real. I was simply noting how those were things not mentioned by the OP. GoL and priest alliances.
  13. Bigstomp Augur

    Almost always the shammy ones are the best. The reason: Shammys don't cast many single target heals. Clerics and druids do. (I realize it's only the caster who can't trigger their own alliance but numbers still say a shammy is ideal, followed by a druid, followed by a cleric)
  14. Tour Augur

    Shm AoE alliance range is 60 feet. Clr 50 feet, and Dru 28 feet. Base healing of 11820, 13641, and 14308 respectively. When you have the option of using the Shm most will find that to be the best option due to range (ie: people not piling up as much as needed, having to move the name frequently, players having to move frequently to dodge raid mechanics, etc) . All that being said, plus the posts above - any alliance is better than none if a raid is inconsistently using or not using it at all. Hotkeys, GINA triggers etc help remind the healers if a re-buff is needed if execution is an issue.
  15. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    The reason shaman alliance is preferred has little to do with if shamans cast single target heals or not. I would argue that in my experience shamans often heal thanks more than druids, but honestly it doesn't matter. Shaman alliance has the largest range on the splash, and THAT is why its preferable to others. the differences in heal amount is negligible.

    Honestly there should have enough single target heals on the tank that it fulminates regardless of who casts it, but they're worried about being able to fulminate, then choose a shaman who isn't big on healing the MTO.
    Allayna likes this.
  16. Zunnoab Augur

    Unless I'm missing something the fulmination is a side note on alliance heals. Indeed, it's the range that matters.
    Brohg likes this.
  17. Clarisa Augur

    This is good advice. In particular, Celestial Regeneration and Elixir of Wulthan (group elixir) have proven, at least on our raids, to contribute significantly to overall healing if the cleric is diligent about using Tranquil Blessings and Mass Group Buff to cast them on the raid at least one time each per event. For Tranquil, you want to cast it before the raid begins (since it can only be cast when OOC and without a raid timer). Though there won't be an indicator that you have it or anything, as long as you avoid casting any spell that is MGBable until you're ready to use Celestial Regeneration or Elixir of Wulthan, it will work during the event for the first cast of an MGBable spell. Then you still have the Mass Group Buff ability to use during the event for a second MGB CR or Elixir. Coordinating these is important, especially on more challenging events (like the 70% and 25% hallway emotes on Mearatas) and for those, you will want to make sure your raid has both Celestial Regeneration and Elixir of Wulthan as they are running to their halls.

    Another set of spells not mentioned but can be useful (especially if you're going for achievements on Aalishai) are Divine Response and Divine Reaction (druids and shamans have versions of these as well). These will proc a group heal if the priest takes a specific amount of AOE damage of a certain type (currently it has to be directional or PBAE and not a Target AE spell). Unfortunately, it won't work on a lot of AOEs due to how designers have implemented them (and in particular, their love of Target AE spells), but it will work on a handful of them per expansion, usually. These only affect the priest group and aren't technically AOE heals, but as it's passive/free healing for every group with a priest, it's important for all priests to use them on events they actually work on. On our raids, clerics who don't use one or both can lose up to 4 million in overall healing compared to a cleric who does. Though the spells technically do not proc at the same time (the one higher in the buff order is used up first), having both up ensures that you have double the amount of counters that you would otherwise and helps you from not having to recast it mid-event unless the event goes on for too long (and then, you should prioritize getting it back up).

    Also, don't forget Exquisite Benediction or a reverse damage shield/mark (preferably delivered through Curate's Retort because the target gets a heal proc effect too). Benediction doesn't heal for much and it doesn't stack with other cleric's Benedictions (I think) because it's more of an aura thing but it's essentially a free, minor HoT that should be around whenever there is AOE damage. It also doesn't require a spell slot like Issuance does. The reverse damage shield/mark also provides very minor healing for melee attacking the marked mob but it can add up over the course of a long event.

    Casting Mending Splash is also obviously important, even if it's not the most intuitive or convenient spell to cast for clerics -- the free target mechanic often breaks the flow of healing and sometimes there won't even be a valid spot to use the heal (like the bridge on the Generals event in Empyr, if your raid tanks the bosses there, or various portals or pieces of ground in older expansion zones). You do have to get used to the timing on it and know when and where to splash, being careful to take its short AOE range (50 ft.) in mind as well. You also want to have your AA heals and clickies (Manisi Branch/Apothic Hammer) and balances (Arb/Epic) ready to cast immediately after on your tank if he has taken a large dip while you were splashing.

    Healing from Splash is incredibly variable on parses because casting 100 splashes doesn't guarantee you more healing than a cleric casting 70 if the timing was off. If you use GINA, you should consider trying Pano's Healing Window ( to get some real-time feedback on how well your splashes are landing. No matter what you do, though, you will land duds, so it's important not to get too discouraged if they aren't landing but to just make sure you're casting enough to give you a chance and casting them when they have the best chance to be effective. You can also use nukes from the Glorious line to activate healing twincast before splashing, though because the nuke has to be cast on a mob (and not be resisted), this introduces yet more delay and risk to the casting sequence and usually (but not always) results in the extra healing going to waste.

    To make sure your clerics are doing all of these things, you have to look at cast and healing parses. Especially with applicants, point out how much healing they aren't landing compared to a cleric that is casting these things. Even something as simple as keeping Divine Response/Reaction up on the events it works on or casting MGB CR or Elixir at least once during an event can have a significant impact on overall healing results. Though results from splash healing are always going to be extremely variable, if a cleric is casting significantly fewer splashes than the other clerics or worse, not casting any because they hate using it, it will hurt your AOE healing efforts.

    Generally, though, no matter how much your clerics do, the biggest contribution to raid AOE healing isn't from clerics due to the differences between our Splash and shaman Squall. Though Squall has a shorter AE range (30 ft compared to 50), it can be cast directly on a player target and lands in three waves. These are significant advantages because it means the shaman doesn't have to fiddle with a target ring and can cast Squall in the flow of regular healing to a player target and because it lands in three waves, it has a better chance of landing on the raid than the all-or-nothing single cast of Splash. Because the shaman healing twincast spell Frostbitten Gift casts through the player target as well, they also have more convenient access to healing twincast than clerics, who have to target switch to cast their nuke on a mob/boss.

    This means that if you have shaman and they aren't performing as well as or better than the clerics (meaning they don't have competitive overall healing numbers or higher than those of the clerics) on these events, then that's probably a more immediate concern than anything your clerics are doing. Though clerics have to do their part, a shaman not doing theirs will have a larger impact because of how much more effective their primary spell for countering AOE damage is/can be.

    If you don't have enough shaman contributing (or paladins, who help too because they have more freedom to splash than clerics in general) and are just relying on clerics for AOE healing, all of the above (along with other things like making sure your tank has a priest alliance and dropping a bunch of Issuances if your clerics are willing to coordinate it) should help. It's important, though, especially for raid leaders, to understand the limitations of cleric AOE healing and not pin it all on them. Even tossing out everything we have, the only immediate heal we can offer to the raid when an AOE lands is through Splash and it's on a 15 sec recast timer. That means that AOE healing is more than just a cleric responsibility. Other classes like shaman and paladin can help (in some cases, more), as well as chanters with Glyph Spray (to help mitigate spell damage), among other things I am probably forgetting. More importantly, the raid needs to do what it can to avoid AOE damage in the first place. Especially on Mearatas, players not going through the center of the room when moving into their hallways and moving in unison with the raid and out of fireballs before they go active will do more to improve raid survival than anything your healers are capable of doing.
    Pano likes this.
  18. Goburs Augur

    I'm a bit confused as to which "moderate" guild you are referring to? Only two actual guilds on CT that have defeated any TBL content are SR and RoTE, and both have defeated Mearatas....more than once.

    Only other option for TBL would be Freelance defeating Reparm, but that's it....

    Is there some rogue guild that we aren't aware of?
  19. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    omg #fakenews!
  20. Raccoo Augur

    Issurance of Mercy is casting Issurance of Spirit. So between being unfocused and using a spell from 105 instead of 110, the only two things it has going is it stacks with itself, and lasts for a while (unless some AEs can destroy those shields).
    Kels likes this.

Share This Page