Ragefire Rotation Suggestion.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Diemond, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. Diemond Augur

    This is the easiest format I can think of for both ease of keeping track of and being fair to all that are able to kill these targets so i'll keep it short. The guilds and days listed are examples only details can be worked on once agreed to and days selected, for this example I am assuming 5 guilds are able to kill the targets.

    Monday Ageless Ascension
    Tuesday Reign of Insanity
    Wednesday Reign of Eternity
    Thursday Apokalypsis
    Friday Twisted Legacy
    Saturday FFA
    Sunday FFA

    Since the spawn times of all the bosses were decreased it is highly possible of seeing at least 1 spawn every day each day is set from 12am to 12am (time zone decision can be made and agreed to by all easily since it still gives 24 hours no matter what time zone the rotation is set to).

    Once the mob spawns you have 3 hours to mobilize and kill the target 3 hours is more than enough time to take your time clearing and preparing for any mob in the game, if target is not killed after the 3 hour period it becomes FFA, if you wipe during the attempt it also becomes FFA.

    If at some point in time more than 5 guilds are able to kill the targets the days can be split into 12 hour slots allowing for up to 10 guilds onto the rotation. The weekends can be added into the rotation and if needed days can be split into 12 hours for each guild which would let a maximum of 14 guilds onto the rotation though I doubt we'll ever see that many guilds ready for these targets before an expansion is opened. Guild time schedules can be taken into account for which 12 hour slot works for them best and paired with another guild that can do the other half of the day.

    There is no need for any GM or Dev involvement in keeping track of this schedule all you need is the ability to remember what day is yours and be able to attempt it within the 3 hour time period. This rotation also does not favor any guild at all as each one on the schedule is given the same amount of time on it and the same opportunities to take down the target that spawns on their day.

    Being added to the list would be just a matter of showing that you are able to kill at least one of the main raid targets.
  2. Rhiyannon Augur

    i would suggest copying yoour post over to the open discussion and pasting it there and then deleting this thread. it would be most helpful.
  3. Diemond Augur


    Done
    Rhiyannon likes this.
  4. Bryant Journeyman

    raid mobs don't spawn every day
  5. Seraphim Augur

    I seriously LOL'd at this post. I'm sorry but this is completely .
  6. Vaclav Augur


    Because you'd only almost 100% guarantee 3x the raids and drops instead of closer to 4.5x with the proposal from your leader (3 FFA one week, 4 FFA the next assuming it rotates weekly due to uneven days in the week - so 3.5 average)? It's simpler to follow and really isn't THAT far off in quantity of FFA.

    Wouldn't you rather have static days that you know are consistent week to week (i.e. "Our primary raid day is Tuesday so I need to be super available that day - FFA days are always Sat/Sun so I'll try to be available for those too!" vs. having to bust out a slide rule when you're making plans with someone that might interfere with raiding)

    Not saying his plan is perfect - nor is Skyp's but it's not LOL/dismiss out of hand worthy either. There's pros to almost any tier of player. [Unless literally they do nothing but play EQ and have no scheduling they ever have to do]
  7. Druz Augur

    This one is laughable. The window is 40+ hours, meaning people would frequently be skipped altogether. And it's problematic when you get more guilds. Dividing into 12 hour blocks doesn't work at all. Sure Rosengarde might like/tolerate the night shift, but no North American guild wants midnight to noon. And if you jump from 5 to 10 time slots to accommodate a 6th guild, what do you do with the 4 extra time slots?

    The best rotation suggested so far is the one drafted by MaestroM in https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/...ted-legacys-raiding-proposal-rotation.225246/ this thread. It gives Twisted Legacy twice as many kills as anyone else, but aside from that is pretty fair.
  8. Diemond Augur


    I never said they do spawn every day I said they can spawn.
  9. Diemond Augur


    Any rotation that favors any guild is not a fair rotation.
  10. Druz Augur

    I don't disagree with you. I don't think I have enough influence to make a 100% evenly distributed rotation happen. That said, your proposed solution will favor guilds at random, which is not any better. You could go weeks being skipped over, it'd be as bad as it is now.
  11. Diemond Augur


    Since the new spawn times have been added, I haven't seen one day that hasn't had at least one target kill in it, this is fair to every guild that would be on it.
  12. Druz Augur

    Sure, the odds that one will spawn will be in your favor (especially post Kunark). But you could go months without Lady Vox kill which would make it very difficult for your paladins to finish their epic quest. If the server has a group of people that can set up and "moderate" a rotation that just cycles through the Mobs it will work out better for everyone involved, rather than leaving it up to chance.

    And that still doesn't address what to happen when more people need in the rotation.
  13. toxist Lorekeeper

    i dont want to raid on friday sorry
  14. Diemond Augur


    That is what the FFA days are for, and nothing says guilds can't mutually agree to trade a target for a target.
  15. Diemond Augur


    Sorry what I offered has already been written in concrete with the blood of 50 virgins and cannot be changed. :)
  16. -wycca Augur


    The rotations you claim are unfair are pretty perfectly fair. Every guild gets an equal shot at all NPC's in a line or in FFA - everyone has their own slot.

    What some appear to want is a rotation that specifically caters to guilds/individuals who only desire to attack raid targets at specific times and under specific circumstances. You also seem to want a rotation that equally distributes loot.

    What is proposed as "fair", is more akin to handicaps. Classic EQ is not a golf game. Classic EQ is not socialistic where everyone walks away with the same result for different inputs. While DBG wanted a rotation, it's a mistake to assume they necessarily want *your* vision of a rotation - or anyone elses. What they wanted was for guilds to talk and try to figure something out.

    TL has made a proposal that is ultimately, the same thing that is working for Lockjaw *and* is apparently koshur to DBG. People seem to think that unless we accept what they demand, we're going to suffer. The danger is that a rotation forms without them or that DBG sees a good faith effort be ignored and decides to either drop the entire thing or accepts a proposal you would not even consider. Remember, most negotiating guilds start with 0-5% of raid kills on average and, for the most part, aren't even showing up for raid mob kills. With the exception of a single Lady Vox & Apok, which was bind rushed and barely won, none of the guilds coming to the table have any new mob kills under their belt. Guilds have had opportunities to do so while we sat back and waited. With only a couple of mobilization scenarios as the possibly exceptions (historically), if we've not been there for a spawn, we've let guilds engage without it becoming a dps race. So while there is not an ample amount of attempts under anyone's belt admittedly, guilds have had opportunities to kill and have not been able to do so. There's alot of complaining about a *theoretical* slice of the pie on mobs buffed mobs unkilled by any other guild on Ragefire. This isn't news to DBG (guilds not showing up, guilds failing, us giving them attempts & generally not being dicks), they've watched us, which is probably why we didn't just get gm slapped or guild banned for the stuff people seem to think we do to make the raid scene "toxic". New guilds will, under no system or under a rotation, eventually kill mobs, but at this point, it is by no means guaranteed, even in their best hours.

    While DBG could be looking at things drastically differently I'll admit, I think they'd take all of this into account if some guilds simply utterly reject a proposal brought to the table (a clone of one already approved and in operation on the other TLP server), by the guild that's currently showing up for and getting the vast majority of kills in a competitive manner. Your guild leader should be talking to Skyp and other guild leaders on this though.

    They're seeking to leash us to some unknown extent and increase the opportunities for other guilds to potentially get kills. They have said nothing about everyone taking turns getting loot at your convenience or eliminating competition.
    Protocol likes this.
  17. Kegwell Augur

    well, we are this / / much closer to instancing.
    I suggest NOT re subscribing until it is announced.
    Re subscribing now will not help, and a rotation will help only a little.
    Bullies will always be bullies.

    Have a nice day!
  18. Protocol Augur

    TL's proposed rotation is actually less harsh than the LJ rotation considering guilds would not be able to pursue the FFA spawn of a mob they just killed. What we see here is that people will never be satisfied until there is an absolute equal outcome regardless of the effort various guilds put in. It's very unrealistic; personally I think the Ragefire guilds should be falling over themselves to support the rotation idea you guys posted.

    In actual classic you got each raid mob once per week (barring patches etc), that means even if guilds got almost no FFA kills on the TL rotation plan they'd still be doing just as well as Fires of Heaven and similar top guilds were doing in 1999. People claim to not be hardcore but are not satisfied by getting the same number of mobs that some of the best guilds of all time got during classic. There is a serious lack of perspective on these forums.
    BigDBeeIcanteven likes this.
  19. Vaclav Augur

    Technically half - and even more technically less than half for Classic.

    Remember the duration is Classic is roughly half the duration guilds were in Classic. Also remember we're partway through Classic era currently.

    Also keep there's the entire thing of making comparisons - sure, Classic gear doesn't do that much - but in the longrun once people start running magelo sigs all over the place to show off (like some people do... cough.. cough...) they're hoping for odds being somewhat similar to keep them somewhere in the running. At least I'm pretty sure some people are that way. (I'm someone who actually gear plans non-ideal per expansion personally with really dialed back targets - but I've seen tons of people that talk about BIS and Raid BIS which basically is saying that)
  20. Batbener Augur

    I like the outside the box idea. It got me thinking. The vast majority of people I know that aren't currently raiding aren't raiding because they can't be available 24/7. Since they aren't morons, they know that that doesn't fit with classic raiding, so they are just waiting till a later xpac to raid. The current rotation suggestions do nothing for them. Instead of giving each guild a day, give them a time slot when all raid mobs are off limits to the other guilds.

    So let's say there are three raid rotation guilds.

    TL's locked raids are Monday from 6pm to 10, Wednesday from 5 to 9 and Friday 4 to 8.
    Apok gets Tuesday 6 to 10, Thursday 5 to 9 and Saturday 2 to 6.
    Rosenguard gets Monday noon to 4pm, Wednesday 11am to 3pm and Friday 10am to 2pm.

    All other times, mobs are FFA.

    You could also guarantee that each guild has at least one chance at a successful raid each week. Say Rosenguard wants to clear fear, then they can have a fully spawned fear on Monday at noon, but all other raid mobs are off limits to them that day and FFA. The top guild still get's to have the lion's share of the loot, and the filthy casual can raid.

    I kept it at three guilds to limit my typing. Who is a raid guild and who gets what time slot can be ironed out. As for the time slots, maybe have a draft. Rosen gets the first pick, then TL, then apok, then apok picks, TL and rosen.

    If you go to a format that allows for some raid loot at set times during the week, I think you'll see the raid guilds go from 5ish to 15/20 by Kunark. Around PoP, when the population starts cutting in half, this will allow for the lesser guilds to merge with the top guild(s) and make the recruiting nightmare that much easier for the big boys, as the game shifts to set time raiding.
    Rhiyannon and Gilamas like this.

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