Ragefire/Lockjaw: Is it possible to have a vote to remove the current vote system?

As I believe it, Ragefire and Lockjaw are the only active TLP servers that require a vote to bring out the next expansion. Would it be possible to remove the vote requirement all together? Removing the vote system would simplify expansion releases and allow the expansion release information to be added to the calendar. Adding the release schedule to the calendar and removing the vote requirements would streamline expansion releases for the server. It would also remove any headache for the developers of having to micromanage a vote system for two unique servers.

Yes, but they won't do it. You can always calculate out when the vote is planned, along with when the subsequent expansion will launch assuming a successful vote.

I don't think we had a single failed vote on Fippy after multiple GoD failures.

This.

DBG should realize that just because they launched a server with ruleset x, four years later they don't need to stick to their guns when everyone (including DBG) has realized it is a mistake. This request is not in the least bit controversial. There is no one saying, "Let us vote (or not) to progress!"

Gonna drop this here just for the sake of it.

DBG should tend to servers like phinny and Ragefire/Lockjaw rather than starting new servers. With all this discussion on a new non-truebox tlp I jumped on RF and LJ last night to check them out and see if it was a viable place to start with a few friends and they were ghost towns with 30 people in general on LJ.

There needs to be effort put into revitalising these servers, and bringing them up to par with other TLP's so they aren't just out dated TLP Experiment servers - they are in good era's to start and 2 expansions out from getting mercs - it covers a lot of what the people in the non-truebox thread want (And if you box, it's really not hard at all to catch up). The vote system i'm sure is a deterrence for people compared to a set 2-3 month timeline amongst other things.

No, but as far as we know, the factors that led to the failed GoD votes on Fippy/Vulak are still present in the overall system. Was it really a tie on Fippy's last failed vote, or was it a system bug that may still be present? DBG probably knows, but we certainly don't. How much was the voting outcome for the first couple of votes a result inter server competiton? I personally voted 6x on Vulak for the vote to fail, on both of Vulak's failed votes, and I know I'm not the only one, and I know personally of quite a few Vulak players who did the same to us.

With how easy it is to level toons into voting range currently on Ragefire/LJ, they should just jettison it. If 1/5th the player base of Mangler decided it was in their best interests , they could change Ragefire's vote results in a matter of hours. And it would only take a fraction of that for Lockjaw. Or a fraction of Ragefire's population to change Lockjaw's vote result.

Vote with your wallet!

From what I heard, the leading raiding guild left Lockjaw and went to Ragefire.

Two guilds moved to Ragfire from Lockjaw. First was Faceless Insanity (now Summation) followed by Dead Halfling Society a couple months later.

You are correct, Dead Halfling Society did move to Ragefire...

I think we need a forum poll to vote on this proposed vote to eliminate voting.

Checkmate goes to Daybreak, for banning forum polls to prevent us from starting down this path.

I wouldn't advise a forum poll for this kind of question. I think it would be at best at poll for in game. There are a lot of people that like watching the world burn and this would somewhat prevent them from voting with malice. Secondly, it would be focused on players who still play on those two servers.

While "possible," folks are correct that we may not want to do this. AND there is a chance of breaking the server by converting it, and I can't think of a good way to test it before trying it.

In the end it is a philosophical thing. This is the server rules we made, and folks signed on to play on that server. We like to "stick to what we made." Changing it may loose the server more players who don't like the change, even with a vote. Of course keeping it as is could loose players. It's all "theory."

I'll bring it up.

I am a Lockjaw player. This is really not important enough to risk breaking something.

Can you test on Fippy to remove the voting? I mean, when I login, there are usually less than 5 people on the server. So, even when if it is down, the people you interrupt are minimal. =) #FreeFippy

Also on Lockjaw. I don't care about removing it but if we can bypass the requirement for the expansion to be beat for the unlock vote to occur that would be beneficial.

Make it a set timeframe like 4 weeks after expansion locks voting will unlock unless the expansion is beat prior to that, whichever is earlier. That keeps the system in place while allowing those who want to have the accomplishment of beating it while also preventing the servers from stagnating on one expansion even if there is a small player base. Not sure if this is easier or harder than removing the whole voting process.

Otherwise I suspect it will reach a point where the guilds will have sufficient trouble beating it, and it will take long enough where the remaining players move on and then it'll just sit there.

This is such a terrible way of thinking. People signed up for those server because it was their only option. Just like how if you wanted to do early raid content you were forced to sign up for truebox because those are the only servers with AoCs. The game evolves tremendously from classic to the later expansions and having an evolving ruleset to go along with that would be the best thing to do.

Also don't forget votes don't need to be a simple majority wins. You can take a vote just to gauge interest (as opposed to a terrible unmoderated forum post full of trolls.) But if the vote comes out with 95% of people voting 1 way maybe do that thing.

And incase that was too vague, please do a similar vote on truebox servers to remove truebox once they get to a certain expansion instead of opening more servers, fragmenting the player base even more and making people throw away all their progress yet again.

Thanks for potentially bringing it up with the other developers.
I must say your post does you a disservice, I always thought that running a old game engine was a challenge and you guys are trying your best, but recently it seems more and more like the team really has no idea how things work on even a basic level. For a system that seems pretty easy to set up start and end times for a vote to go live, the past has shown us that the developers can't seem to get this right. This seemed like it was a known problem on previous voting servers as well. It doesn't help any when your reply to the vote system not working is simply paraphrased as "Lulz It didn't work now, but the next one should. Give me a pat on the back, "I am proactive"."

As someone that doesn't regularly play on the server as of lately, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I have invested a lot of time and energy in playing characters on Ragefire. I have six active accounts when I play. I have done most epic 1.0 and have started doing 1.5/2.0 on the server. I have a character with nearly maxed out tradeskills. For me, I think it would be best to transfer the server to a basic 3/2 expansion release schedule. Why? I don't want what happened to Fippy and Vulak to happen to Ragefire and Lockjaw. I don't want the server to progress to a point where no major guild is immediately doing raid content, and then dieing as it becomes impossible for raid content to completed or impossible for a vote to pass. I have considered transferring to live if it wasn't so expensive.

Yober and many other people on the server have made very valid points. Implementing a voting tlp server as the only option at the time, and then later saying that is what people signed up for is idiotic reasoning. The main reason people quit Ragefire and Lockjaw was not because of massive bot armies, it was because a few select raiding guilds were able to keep all content on lock for all raid content until GoD came out.

What is possible has changed over time. The advent of picks, AOC, and Truebox is evidence of that. It doesn't mean a previously made server can't evolve to match others as well.

A player poll on changing rules on a TLP is a bad idea, unless DBG is prepared to extend similar polls to other servers for their pressing issues (example: GOD on Agnarr, xp rate on Coirnav). People will be up in arms if one TLP gets to vote on a rule change and the others don't.

Just make the change. You can test on Fippy as suggested earlier. Voting has run its course and is no longer being used.

Orr you could just offer free xfers off of Lockjaw to Ragefire just like there were(haven't tried recently to know if it is current or not) free transfers to Zek.

As far as "keeping it as" has already proven to lose people, two full guilds worth of people to be precise. Might be past "theory" phase at this point. =)