Quietly removing Krono from Accounts is Unacceptable!

Most of the refunds were within reasonable amounts of current krono pricing for server (Conq's example being an outlier)

Just PR from lots of people complaining that DB haven't put out an official announcement. (Actually took weeks*)

Because thats how they were purchased. If it was a legitimate purchase from DBG they wouldn't have disappeared. And if they did, they're able to be tracked and would be refunded a Krono for their issue.

You have no proof of any of this - just assumptions. That is my point.

Theyve stated that every Krono purchase is tracked by its own ID tag.

So if a bug did happen that caused Krono to disappear, they could track it and see that it was bug affected and restore it easily enough.

Since that isn't what's happening, it's a fairly reasonable conclusion to come to that this isn't the case. With plat being refunded, it's also safe to assume that it was in game currency that was used to purchase the Krono that disappeared.

As such, they replace what went missing, which would be your plat.

There's also the fact that no one's seen anyone claim that a legitimate purchase of Krono has gone missing.

I mean, these aren't just shot in the dark theories here. You take what facts you're given and apply them to the case and end up with your results.

Why couldn't they reverse any trade for krono first then delete the krono? Or is it due to the krono going through multiple accounts?

Probably hard to reverse things when multiple krono and an item is concerned. I wonder if they assign a plat value to items then if one krono in the trade gets deleted they reimburse only that portion of the value if you gave 7 krono one gets deleted you get 1/7 of the item value.(that they have assigned)

I would think pure krono plat trades could be reversed at the value paid for them.

When there is multiple layers of trades that would need to be reversed it isn't that simple.

I think DPG should dispute all CC chargebacks on this. If it was regular merchandise you couldnt reverse the charge unless you returned the merchandise. If the consumer is in the wrong the CC wont allow the reversal.

The only exception is stolen CC's and even then its important to dispute.

Were this the real world, it would be 100% legal to do this. In bankruptcy law, the court can order a "claw back" of assets that were sold, donated, or transferred to avoid their being seized. The statue of limitations varies depending on reason and jurisdiction, but the minimum is around 2 years. A claw back can be ordered in fraud and money laundering cases as well (which is where this type of Krono fraud would be categorized).

Throughout the US, the recipient of stolen property is not entitled to keep the stolen property even if the recipient was 100% ignorant of the theft.

In this Krono situation,

1. First Victim: Daybreak. They were illegally charged back on a legitimate purchase.
2. Second Victim: The buyer of the charge-back Krono. They were coaxed into purchasing stolen property which results in delayed harm, but the harm still happens.

For both victims, the offender is the fraudster even if it's Daybreak that claws back the Krono because none of this would ever have happened without the theft and sale of the fraudulently-acquired Krono.

As nice as that sounds how much money/time will they have to spend to dispute those chargebacks and how quickly will that process end up costing them more then they get from the purchases in the first place?

Part of the reason this all works is because the charges that are being disputed are individually low that fighting the chargeback isn't always worth it.

I realize that. But DB also needs to ensure folks will not lose krono bought in game from other players.

The only way I can see them doing that is if they don't allow people to trade a krono after it is purchased until enough time has passed that there is little chance of it being charged back anymore. However a change like that will have a big impact on the ability to use krono as they are intended to be used.

Clarifying question: Are you saying that DB should ensure people don't lose legitimately-acquired Krono or any Krono purchased from other players?

If legit Krono, then I agree. No one wants Krono that were legitimately acquired to be taken from someone.

However, I would not agree that those who purchased Krono acquired via fraudulent chargebacks should be allowed to keep their Krono. Doing so obscures the harmful effects of the fraud on secondhand buyer and reduces DB's original claim on the value of the Krono (necessary for insurance and potentially criminal actions).

That's a reasonable safeguard. Generally, chargebacks are limited to 120 days.

Perhaps they could allow the user to chose between two options:

1. Use 2FA to receive the Krono immediately
2. Don't use 2FA and receive the Krono after the chargeback interval has passed

It's definitely not convenient for those people who can't use 2FA, but it would at least allow them a way to get Krono. They could also eliminate the 2FA requirement if you've met certain pre-conditions, such as been a subscriber for X months, previously ordered Y Krono, or stuff like that.

Sure but having to wait 4 months to trade a krono will put a big damper on people wanting to buy them in the first place as I would assume it is generally a short time between buying them and wanting to use them to trade for something else.

I am not sure that two factor auth is a way to determine if a krono will get charged back or not and waiting up to 120 days to get your krono also isn't a good option.

If the CC is stolen 2FA will block the purchase. Then assuming the CC is not stolen any chargeback gets the CC and account permabanned. I think requiring 2FA for krono purchase is a valid solution.

The only way to guarantee that you're dealing with non-fraudulent (fraudulent coming via chargebacks or whatever) is to buy them directly from Daybreak.

What I'm saying is that they need to put a warning on the krono page (and again when you actually buy one via the store) that says players that purchase krono from other players assume all risks and that you will not be compensated if those krono came about via any shennanigans. Make it EXTREMELY clear that it's "buyer beware" when dealing player to player and you eat the cost of any scam...and just take customer service out of the loop.

You want to buy krono from other players in game...go right ahead. But YOU, not Daybreak, should assume the risk and have to deal with the consequences.

Id vote for that.

That's a terrible idea, destroying the entire point of Kronos existing.

This will not work for our players who are in Canada and other countries and wish to buy Krono from DBG. They have even tried using a USA phone number and it will not work. This was just yesterday: