Question regarding Balance: SK Epic vs. Pally Epic

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Darakar, Dec 29, 2023.

  1. Petalonyx Augur

    This doesn't get highlighted that often. It's much more than tanking, self-healing, burst DPS and sustained DPS where SK outshine paladin. SK are not a ADPS class in theory, but they have very notable group contributions (many of them somewhat 'hidden' like mana regen, increased dmg taken from melee). I think it's funny when people call them the 'selfish knight.'
    fransisco and alanus like this.
  2. Allayna Augur

    Seed of Hatred in 165s, 5.13B Damage @31.08M, 1. Aallayna = 750.63M@4.61M in 163s {7D}

    Seed of Hatred in 165s, 121.28M Heals @735.06K, 1. Aallayna = 21.78M

    Seed of Hatred in 161s, 37.98M Tanked @235.91K, 1. Aallayna = 13.25M

    Take the combined and it drops pretty dramatically:

    Combined (39): A shadow of resentment in 661s, 43.36B Damage @65.59M, 8. Aallayna = 1.39B@2.46M in 565s {7D}

    Compare that to a more tank intensive, all live mob encounter:

    Combined (45): Brigadier Navulta in 665s, 44.16B Damage @66.41M, 39. Aallayna = 474.19M@726.18K in 653s {D}

    I work hard for the money. And clearly can do all three, top a dps/healing/tanking parse at the same time when pumping hard....but there are limits when it comes to longer fights and live mobs.

    Disclaimer: Your experiences may vary. This is a one off mini of a raid fight that is undead. In a tank group with a bard.

    If I had my way, I'd get a focus AA line to shorten the reuse of our 3 AA AE aggro abilities to match that of the SK.

    I'd actually see Champion's Oath/RB released.

    I'd take a nerf to our burst undead DPS to have an increase to our sustained live mob dps.

    I'd completely rework alliance for paladins to not be DPS as it has never been on par or worth loading, I'd probably just reroll it as a priest alliance and add paladin heals to the other priest alliance proc counters.

    I'd stop adding focus lines for stuff that literally not a single decent paladin uses, like the revitalizing steel line. Really, we wasted dev time on steel? C'mon, do better.

    Imo, post the honest parse, stop fearing the nerf....or stop posting at all.
    Wulfhere, fransisco and alanus like this.
  3. Ozon Augur

    WE (SKs) proposed that years ago, that we got a revers cleric epic line, where we siphoned off HPs from the group to keep us alive. Didn't go anywhere, there were MANY objections to the idea.
    alanus likes this.
  4. mmats Augur

    i agree in principle, though a lot of classes were given group buff abilities that i felt should have been given to ench/bard only.

    you realize you just said the equivalent of "more healing is not needed, as long as you have enough healing" lol

    the same could be said about dps... "as long as you have enough dps to kill the mob, you dont need more dps" rofl
  5. alanus Augur

    That's not how it works, though. More dps = mobs die faster. More heals after overheal = nothing happens
    fransisco and Allayna like this.
  6. Tuco Augur

    I don't disagree with overheal being useless and "extra" DPS being generally more valuable than extra healing, but the sentiment is a bit reductive. In many raids DPS will be more aggressive if they know they have more healing. They will ignore certain mechanics in favor of getting off another spell, shaman/druids will be more focused on DPS and tanks will be more likely to optimize for DPS.
    Syylke_EMarr, Allayna and Ozon like this.
  7. mmats Augur

    you sure you dont want to rethink that? as long as you have enough dps to beat the mob regen, then you can just have a boatload of clerics and rotate them so that nobody runs oom. eventually the mob will die...
  8. Allayna Augur

    In EQ, DPS is king.
    fransisco and alanus like this.
  9. alanus Augur

    Well most people don't want to spend more time than needed for an encounter. More DPS = faster kills = can do more events in a shorter amount of time.

    Extra splash heals when no additional heals are needed isn't going to help with that. More DPS to make a mob die 20% faster is going to help with that
    fransisco likes this.
  10. Maedhros High King

    You also need to mention that you got a BOTF proc on one of the trash before seed spawned.
    This is what I did on Seed a few weeks ago with no adps, but I had wretched luck on BOTF that run.
    /GU Seed of Hatred in 27s, 67816k @2511698 | Maedhros 67816k@2,511.7k (2,511.7k in 27s)
    But for the entire event it was pretty good./GU Combined: Illandrin Tenisbre in 995s, 1,805.7m @1814749 | #1 Maedhros 1,805.7m@1,814.7k (1,814.7k in 995s)
    This was prior to getting my raid 2hander.
    I definitely was not number 1 on the parse, just since the chat filter debacle I've turned off pretty much anything that isnt from my actions.
    Probably going to be a jerk and put myself in a dps group next time.

    At this point with my SK persona at 125 and finally done with most of the critical AA, I fully plan to play my SK on 6 out of 8 events this year. The only one that the paladin is better or at least, fun enough to play instead of the SK are Shadow of my Shadow and Final Fugue.
  11. fransisco Augur

    well, the good news is SKs are getting a much needed dps upgrade.
    Test patch says its increased hp and damage output of their rk2 and rk 3 pets.
  12. Lubianx Augur

    Put yourself on Lich on Heros are Forged too. May be bouncy but at least it summons you.
    Maedhros likes this.
  13. Allayna Augur

    You would be incorrect.

    I went back and checked the parse of all the mobs pre-Seed. No BoTF. Just a nugget 2H and a bard in the tank group and knowing how to DPS undead.
  14. Spacemonkey555 Augur

    Probably means the ls pet was a downgrade from nos like many of the pets this year
  15. Maedhros High King

    Hmm thats impressive then. Every once in a while the RNG gods align and we get nice big juicy slays above and beyond the normal frequency expectations.
    Lets not try to pretend that there is some kind of secret trick to get a lot of big random slays though.
  16. fransisco Augur

    Huh? All the pets were totally upgrades. They then nerfed the focusable pets to not be much of an upgrade. Following this by buffing non-focused pets. I think your timelines are off.
  17. Spacemonkey555 Augur

    Swarm pet spells were trash downgrades from nos, some aa pets didn't work at all.
  18. josh Augur

    To balance SK epic they need to make it so spa 459, 185 and crits/cripples/slays/etc don't count towards the amount healed.

    If there are actually human beings out there who think that i should be capable of blasting off 200k heals every time i hit a mob, i just really have no idea what to say to you.
    Maedhros likes this.
  19. fransisco Augur

    Do you even know what we're talking about? Swarm pets? huh? Are you not paying attention? You see desperate to keep changing things. This is about sk rk2/3 pet getting a big buff. However I think you know that, which is why you're grasping for ways to distract from how SKs are somehow getting even more OP.
    Maedhros likes this.
  20. Spacemonkey555 Augur

    :rolleyes: Ignored.