Question for those of you who "want to raid"

I agree. The solution is more group content.

I'll just call the group size 48-60 players, so that we can satisfy the content requirements of a large number of people at the same time. And these players should be able to access and complete this group content without disruption from outside groups, since Guide resources are a premium. Since development resources are also a premium, let's just use old zones such as Sol B and PoFear. Heck, we even already have some usable NPC models that we don't see too often, such as Nagafen and Cazic Thule. These players should also be compensated for their time in putting together a group of adventurers capable of taking down this end-game content. Now that I think about it, we can save even more dev resource time by just using existing end-game player drops with stats that have already been well thought-out for in-era compatibility, such as a Cloak of Flames and Shield of Rainbow Hues.

We had our drama at the beginning. We all worked it out like adults though.

I started gaming on a Commodore Vic 20, first game was Radar Rat Race. Try again. You are redefining the word to suit your argument. I played Ultima on pc and UO (and I was a PKer, Kal Vas Flam b*tch), I played Underlight which is a little known MMO that was high RP and PvP. It is impossible to compare any of those early games to EQ. Even if there was KSing, DPS racing, or mobilization races in those games (which there were not) they would not have been classified as PvP.

What are you even going on about Vaclav? Your completely off context and in some strange fantasy land on your own. He said I got my loot from pinatas, I showed that was not the case, this has zero to do with what happened 16 years ago.

Sometimes Vaclav gets lost waxing poetic about his video games accomplishments from 16 years ago and a wall of pointless text ends up on the screen. I don't get it either but it seems to happen in just about every thread.

Why would something intended to be nostalgic drum up old nostalgic memories and ideals that things be similar? Can't explain that... Do you think before you post?

Its far too long to post here for the relevant sections, but Raph Koster, Designer Dragon for his UO development name has almost an entire chapter on the first major publication discussing the beginnings of early MMO design using the term PVP to run the gammut. And note its a publication that Aradune, Brad McQuaid considered incredibly accurate as did Pardo from WoW.

As I said (and you ignored) realistically its like a sliding scale - pure PVE on one end, pure PVP on the other. Plenty of stuff is gray area in between, just like any other two pole scale.

Regardless of any opinion you have of where it falls - its not PURE PVE thats not subject to debate. Some people want a pure or almost entirely pure PVE experience which ANY outside player influence effects - period. Call it something else, I don't care - but don't call it PVE because its not.

This was more of an assertion against previous statements you and others have made claiming it was like this in 99. Do you forget previous assertions you made and don't care when you contradict yourself? Sorry for having a memory greater than a goldfish.

Take your own advice then and stop calling it PvP, because it is not that either.

Please reference where I said the amount of loot I have is like it was in 99. Please enlighten me.

You realize that when you regale us with stories of you scrubbing Furor's toilet we don't actually care? You seem wrapped up in declaring yourself some kind of authority on the matter when you're just another joe with an opinion. It's kind of sad.

Additionally: I was referring to online titles mostly (looks like my PC experience doesn't predate you that much Zork 2 on Atari 800 was my start) - theres nearly a decade of MUDs/MOOs/MUSHs that predate UO, nearly two decades when you include things like TradeWars2000 and such that laid the foundations for what became known as MUDs.

Who the hell cares what the content is called? It doesn't matter if its PVP, PVE, PVEVP, or whatever the hell you want to call it. That's semantics, and nothing more.

It is what it is. If you don't like it, stop and come back in GoD when its all instanced. Or is instanced content too hard for you all? Prove me wrong, I dare you.

That's why the Producer will not allow instanced raids right now. She knows you all can't handle it. It'd be a waste of time and resources. Want to prove her wrong? Go make a guild on a live server, restrict the gear to at era stuff. Level lock to 65, and clear through the GoD raids.

Then come back and say you want to do that with 50 content here. If you can't do it, then you're just wasting everyone's time.

You said this experience was similar to 99 overall without caveats. Clearly that aspect is one serious strike against that argument. (among a host of others)

Additionally I was saying I'd be fine in not using the term - but you need to accept it's not pure PVE which is what most of the instancing side of the argument want.

(Which doesn't include me, it's better than no parity - but I'd prefer some level of parity to the old days ideally)

Right because no one should ever give context behind their opinion - I wasn't declaring myself an authority on such, I was stating my credentials. If someone wants to declare me an authority, that's their choice - I only have my credentials to stand on. (And I was just a regular contact in a friendly sense that kept lots of track of him, because I was a Guide (and later Sr. Guide) for Veeshan FYI - I did benefit from lots of watching FoH, and did chat with Furor/Alex often but I was never a member of his guild)

Gotta love fantasy games.

I've done that, with three different guilds now personally its a terrible excuse. (In fact the last time we beat Tunat with only 42 for the first kill - so hard that we were two groups low... and on our third try at him period...)

Past GoD stuff gets fuzzy on how much I did in era since interest often wanes (i.e. Tunat this time was beaten right during the TLP 3.0 announcement which.... changed interest a bit). Some I did in era, some I did not. And anything past TSS I did not really do anything serious with.

[Also note, I've beaten Time in era and ALL the LDoN raids in era - which are arguably more difficult than the majority of GoD]

And regardless, I'd rather give Daybreak my money the next two years than play for two months to keep up to date then have nothing to do for four months and quit a while. First of all, I don't generally come back (as it seems many don't - part of why we play on these servers rather than Live with all our ancient characters) - and even if I do, it's reducing the revenue I provide Daybreak to 1/3 of their potential because I'm bored.

Can you produce some sort of quote showing that's the reason they don't instance the current content? So far the only reason given is because casuals shouldn't be allowed to kill raid targets because it will diminish the accomplishment of others.

Also, aren't you not even in a guild much less a raiding guild by your own admission? Atleast most folks talking about this stuff are raiding.

Seems to be the common theme. People 'lose interest'. It seems people want to do classic and kunark raids because they know its easier than the instanced ones. So what happens when the Classic and Kunark stuff gets as hard as the stuff people commonly 'lose interest' in?

That's what the devs and producer see, I'm almost sure of it. I can't be the only one who's made this correlation between when the numbers drop off and the type of content that is available. It just so happens to be the instanced raids.

What people say they want and what they really want are two different things.

In reality, players want tank and spank bosses with 32,000 hp they can hit up with 3-4 groups and get 3-4 sets of loot per guild per rotation. Like I said, they should just put the loot on the market and save them the trouble. Let them buy their gear if they don't want to work on it. Even allow Krono to be consumed for 1200 DBC and profit from it.

GoD comes after Kunark and everybody is going to leave then? New one on me.

Sorry but this sounds about as out of touch with what anyone has asked for as those saying we need raid targets to autoflag players for PvP so they can fight one another over spawns.

If that was true, why haven't there been mass quittings over the new Lord Nagafen and Lady Vox variants we've got? In fact I have yet to even see ONE PERSON THREATEN TO QUIT OVER THEIR BUFFING.

And I've written out the entire description of all the things that went wrong the same time as instanced raids - and while difficulty (abnormally hard difficulty that was never beaten pre-nerf in fact) was a factor - it was one amongst over a HALF DOZEN ISSUES THAT OCCURRED AT THE SAME TIME.

In addition, hard (but not literally impossibly hard) instanced raids had already existed with Plane of Time (psuedo-instanced at the time) and LDoN raids unlike the plentiful bugs that literally would create impossible encounters in original GoD. [i.e. Tunat using EVERY AE from Tac'Vi at once... that was a thing...]

People generally tend to appreciate being gated by difficulty as long as it appears achievable. Period. Look back to PoP era - look at how many people complained about the difficulty to Coirnav vs. Rallos Zek in Time - both similar concepts in that they're heavily add based, but yet back then very few complaint threads about RZ in Time. But tons about Coirnav (and Fennin, but less direct analog to compare him to)... why was that? Because one was gated by people blowing the spawn with a single group, the other was gated by actual challenge.

Sure, some people want stupid tank and spanks - but there's just as many that get bored by such and want stuff that can go sideways the minute people start screwing up.

?

Correlation isn't causation.

dbg will do what they want in their own time, but to believe that people aren't capable or somehow intimidated by the content is so mind-bogglingly out of touch it's fascinating.

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling at this point.