Pulling vs. Crowd Control in 3-Box Group

Apologies in advance for the topic. Trying to establish a working group for TBM content without 3rd party software. Almost anything works for DH HAs and pre-TBM group content.

1) Pulling - Monk vs. Bard (option 3 Pal as off tank). Bard has a lot of utility and pulling tricks, but Monk has Echo line AE Mez which appears to work quite well. Bard can pull and play melody. Monk can pull and auto attack if necessary.

2. Tank - Warrior vs. Earth Pet vs. Paladin. Warrior can macro and be left alone in most instances? Macro can be set for Mage early and focus on dps if needed. Paladin needs attention to tank well.

3. DPS/Heal-Cure/Other Stuff - Shaman brings a host of abilities, even with slow mitigation. Cleric better than merc healer by far. Rogue or Berzerker or Wiz can dps.

So far, I have only tried Monk-Rogue-Mage for Into the Temple b with healer, healer and caster dps mercenary. It worked OK.

With that in mind (no enchanter), what makes the most sense?

I'd have the bard as puller, it's easier to get at least some benefit from a boxed bard than most other classes.

Any of the 3 tanks make good group tanks, War might even get a slight bonus to exp and they have a relatively low AA count. Mage could also work but you're running without perma crack or enchanter auras... you're also at the mercy of any future pet (aggro, damage, ac or etc.) changes...

Shaman would not be bad, but I'd probably vote druid instead, (halflings get an exp bonus). I think the time saved with ports & etc. wins out over the stat buffs & slow & etc. (that can be partially handled by bard)

you could then mix & match your mercs as dps or healer depending but even if you put them all away you'd at least have the general bases covered.

I still think monk wins as best puller (I'm a monk main) and you don't need crowd control with endless single pulls, but obviously bard brings a little more to the table especially with a mage in group.

I like to use monk / warrior / bard with mix of mercs. And maybe sub in zerker for bard if I need more overall dps. But for ease of boxing bard rocks with any combo'=)

Just facetank everything you pull.

I do know of people who pull with a monk then have him FD and /pet attack

LOL!! My favorite tactic when playing my monk in a group setting is to try to land the mob with moving mountain on top of the chanter. This is just to make it easier for him to handle, of course.

In any zone where mobs aren't immune to mez or root enchanters make far better pullers than monks. And when they ate pulling their charm pet still contributes dps a monk that is pulling takes a net loss of his personal dps v the time gone. The only thing enchanters don't have is run8, which really is a non issue anyway considering they have better survivability Than a monk.

Understood. However, the post indicated that I wanted a non-enchanter three-box group.

Just facetank then single pulling is a waste of time at this point (if you are talking pal or warrior tank)

Paladin or warrior (sk too but you dodnt mention them) + bard + wwhatever dps will crap all over anything in group or old raid content.

Mercs as you see fit

Enchanter is a huge plus for virtually any situation I have encountered in HA's or really anything. Pacify line of spells, banishment line, group mezz, blanket of forgetfullness, etc. I have gotten 3 and 4 box groups out of situations that would have went to hell in 99% of the situations you can imagine. Also, decently focused mage AND beastloard pets with initial aegis spells AND minion pets casted can buy you time to slow\mezz and resolve most crowd control situations. Also, a high level cleric with a decent heal over time casted before the pull in a multiple(4 to 5 mobs) situation can help a merc J5 cleric or two keep pace. Don't skimp on your beasty weps....once the pets lock aggro they can provide your dps along with mage rains. Also, mages have decent multi resists wind of malo AA abilities...use them.

Personally I like;

Warrior, Cleric, Magician Plus three DPS just pull in multiples and don't worry about it. Only time I've run into trouble is when both cleric and warrior are mezzed at the same time. So if you're pulling in areas with a lot of mez switch out one of the DPS mercs for a healer merc.

I have a group-geared 105 Monk with all defensive and most offensive AAs. Here are my observations:

1. As a general rule, boxing two melees is a pain. Boxing a Monk is even worse because about 50% of my Monk's DPS comes from special attacks, which means that I need to be mashing my spam key all the time. I also have to pay attention to my long-reuse disciplines to get the most out of them. It makes it hard to box the Monk efficiently since I don't use third-party software.

2. The Monk AE mez gets resisted quite a bit by white cons and above. It's not too bad and there are ways around it -- pacify mob A, mez mobs B and C, mob C resists the mez and you have a single pull. However, you have to be on your toes.

3. When the group tank is a pet, I have to watch my agro and FD when I get too close to 100%. When the group tank is a moderately competent player, I rarely have to worry about agro.

#3 is true. The melee deeps has to watch their aggro. At least monks can FD and then get right back into it.

Also, and the reason for the edit is related to the challenge of pulling higher level mobs. Enchanters just have some amazing tricks they can do to help an SK or Monk with pulling. And doing it while boxing slows you down just a tad while vastly decreasing the chances for a bad pull.