Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Dzarn, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. Belexes ForumQuester

    What camp takes you 3 hours to get to????

    Escape is not that efficient. I pull singles in crowded rooms while in Howling stones and I never use it. It is more efficient to control your environment using other tools. I want mobs to act predictably, not pathing all over the place. Keep them where they are buy using other tools and pop out that single mob. :) People don't realize how good rogues can be at pulling.
  2. Dewey Augur

    There is no camp or place that takes 3 hours to get to. That's my point. I was responding to the person who said they had wanted people to clear to a camp. I was simply stating that with all the mechanics we currently have, that will not happen.
  3. Belexes ForumQuester

  4. shimmerman0202 New Member

    I do not normally post my thoughts on the changes that are made in game but after reading and taking some time to digest the dev's approach to the "Escape" that our classes have, I found that this change is more than detrimental to the overall game in a lot of ways, some ways which go back many many years and have yet to be resolved and some that we have yet to experience as content continues to be released with little if any consideration made to those whom like to solo. Not BOX, but want to experience the game 1 v 1. Now I'm not saying this is all about solo, but its a part of the game that will be effected.
    With the impending changes, the solo portion will become brutal - limiting the pulling of a single mob, and ending in near death if not insataneous death for all.
    It Is already difficult to contain single pulls in current content(TBL) or even prior to TBL in some cases, where pulling and fading, escaping whatever you want to call it made it manageable.
    So with the end/mana cost and timers, what could be 10 pulls in a hour (speculating) will now reduce that amount and take even longer. Limiting the actual play time to medding time. Now I may be acting a little dramatic, I don't think im that far off, and while the medding has improved over time, there is still the rest to medding component that will reduce the time between pulls even more.

    Additionally, we have the aggro issues that have been around since 1999, where some classes can take aggro from a tank and the only way to combat a face roll is to fade, now with these proposed changes, playstyle would be impacted as the changes would reduce said player to mashing the non-aggro stealing spells until fade is back . Now reducing the dps, which means more aoes and more deaths,

    Lets not forget that pulling is not just a tanks job, but the tanks do not have a insta-aggro button that can be used on every pull, to snap a mob being brought to camp from the puller --that the puller no matter bard or what class...does not have the mitigation the tank does to take a 2 handed smack from current content and live.

    However all that aside, why aren't the pathing issues, warping mobs through walls, floors, landscape, mountains..etc being addressed, so we do not need to use escape when 20 mobs show up because the one mob you pull decides to run from one side of the zone to the other before running a straight line to where you actually are?. How has "Escape" become a topic, when EQ has SOOOOOO many other bugs and fixes that effect game play that need to be done.....
    I really hope a Dev can answer that.
    PCSS, 05KRYSTI and Fibgirl like this.
  5. FatmantheBst New Member

    First off I think this is a bad idea. I just came back to the game 6 months ago. I made 2 Beastlords FD in mind. With the short refresh. ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS I PLAY THEM. Now 4 years later or whatever you want to change all that. What is your goal here? Do you think FD is to powerful for raids or regular play? For raids Beastlords would be DEAD without the fast refresh time of FD. So say goodbye to that dps in raids. Even with all the tools Beastlords have it would be lights out. Just a few dots or alliance and were are toast. You are going to open up a can of worms. Give classes more tools to lose aggro? Give tanks more tools to get aggro? Have fun.

    As for groups. I have played many classes and know them well. I box 2 Beastlords and a War. Splitting mobs is not easy with a Bst. Think refresh is around 15 sec now. I have no idea what your goal is here? Bst just suck at pulling/splitting mobs. Lucky I have 2 Bst for back up. Now in groups even with my War taunting my Bst will get aggro. So I FD or whatever you want to call it and FAIL. I can stay alive for sometime but not 2.5 min with a named pounding on me. Yes taunt more on my War. I get it.

    Other classes just running around EQ. How many time have you ran into a see inv mob or forgot inv on one of your crew and bam you are about to die. Having some kind of fade is very nice. I do not think it is a big deal and should have more of it in the game.

    So what is the goal here? Limit dps on raids or just to make EQ suck more.
    PCSS likes this.
  6. Zanarnar Augur

    DEEP BREATH my friend. Nowhere did they say they were removing or changing playing possum. We appear to be gaining a new ability that allows us to fade. There are enough bad feelings in this thread, lets not mix in misunderstandings.
    PCSS likes this.
  7. Catashe Augur

    Why are you assuming that this new Falsified Death would be replacing Playing Possum? I mean its possible but Dzarn clearly stated that while it started with rogues and bards then to monks and finally chanters.. that after every class with the sole EXCEPTION of beastlords got a fade ability... Which honestly makes it sound like beastlords will keep Playing Possum while getting the new fade ability which is nothing but a buff for beastlords
    PCSS likes this.
  8. FatmantheBst New Member

    Not assuming anything Catashe. Just not sure? Maybe they can let us know. Yes it would be much better for Bst if we had Falsified Death and Playing Possum. Good day.
    PCSS likes this.
  9. Vumad Cape Wearer

    So beast lords are grouped with monks but enchanters are not grouped with bards? Enchanters got Stasis in 2008 and have thusly been using it to pull for over 11 years and now we are going to get a massive nerf smashing? Enchanters have used stasis for over a year longer than beastlords even had FD but some how we are getting the face stomp?

    We have had Paci since day 1 and have thusly been a primary pulling class since day 1 and somehow we get grouped in with shaman and berserkers? Is it not understood that paci being capped at the level is why enchanters, who have been played as a primary pulling class for the extent of their existence, have needed stasis for the last 11 years to manage pulls and crowd control? Is there no concept of how stasis and friendly stasis is used?

    Do you guys understand how we play our class?

    It's like that cartoon meme in the meeting...
    How do we make the game better?
    We can extend the reuse of stasis!
    We can make it cost 20% mana!!
    We could fix azure mind crystal and gather mana so they recover a logical amount of mana <--- this guy gets thrown out the window.

    Hey maybe if azure mind crystal was worth squat it wouldn't be such an insult to make stasis cost 20% of our mana. Maybe you can straighten that out in the same patch?

    Sorry to come out strong, but if I come across insulting, it is only because I feel so insulted. Put us in that top group where we belong.
    PCSS and Dewey like this.
  10. Omegga Elder

    As a ranger I pull for my group. While this will not affect the current expansion much, I will effect pulling in zones like Veshaan's Peak. We are a mostly group geared group (Battleworn/Adamant with some Fight Fire rares) with one DPS class. We had to get the bloody racnaar from one of our group members to finish hunter the other day, and with my current 3 min reset, we were barely clearing enough mobs to get the phs. We ended up having to fight the Bloody Racnar with roamer respawns. We would not have been able to clear that area with a 10 minute reset on cover tracks.

    I suspect clearing through the pillow room in VP would have been impossible to with 10 min reset.

    Somone above talked about howling stones. The 10 min reset would make clearing the room for the 3rd partisan quest extremely difficult.

    Please remember to look at how this change will affect all levels of players. Sometimes it seems decisions are made due to the easy of raid geared players to get things done.
    Chatoyan and 05KRYSTI like this.
  11. Repthor Augur

    it will continue to be more effichent to train a zoneline then to fade for warriors. so no change for me

    also 20% to drop aggro in a bad situation seems terrible that means classes alreaddy strapped for mana has to allways stop dpsing or useing resources wile at 20% range just incase a situation might arise. that sounds like a terrible plan to punnish players for spending their resources to play well

    seems to me the long reuse alreaddy dictates how often you can use the ability adding a big front loaded cost to it seems un needed
    PCSS likes this.
  12. Bummak Journeyman

    I personally don't mind the changes being suggested, as on most of the classes being discussed, I never understood why they got the ability in the first place. I use Escape on my Rogue mostly to escape a bad situation, which rarely happens anyways. As for Monks and SKs, I don't think it's really going to affect how they operate anyway.
    Balthen likes this.
  13. Allayna Augur

    When we are mobs will be 122, by the current logic that we are 110 and raid mobs are 117. Some forethought helps. Making the raid fade useless. 115 + 5 = 120 for those playing the home game. Still cannot fade a raid target, hit breather and get back in the fight, not to mention the massive End or mana cost of 20%.

    I listed in my previous post many other options for "non-puller pullers" that will make this change simple....a deletion of the ability from the hotbar, like Act of Valor.
    PCSS likes this.
  14. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    If thats the case, why give it to classes even earlier than they get it now?

    As a wizzy I certainly didn't need it any earlier than we recieved it.
  15. Tarvas Augur

    Pairing Cheetah with Imbued Ferocity may help you in the situation you described. I really haven't had problems during raids doing it this way or in the group game with my new SK tanking. First Spire is another option to limit spell hate. Normally, the only time that I absolutely have to hit Cover Tracks in raid is on random trash. I understand though that mileage may very depending on what the tanks are doing.
    PCSS likes this.
  16. Diptera Augur

    ..and the level increase / 100% success is still only a partial undo of the original nerf! (100%, no level limit).
    Ibadan Kun'Tirel and Yinla like this.
  17. code-zero Augur

    The change that gave every class a fade was a terrible nerf for bards fade. Not comparative but an actual nerf. We suddenly had to buy a lot of AA and our mana cost went up dramatically. Utility of bard fade went way down with the split between aggro drop and the evaders invisibility.

    Yeah, it was an enormous nerf to bards. Our fade became qualitatively much worse than any of the new fades. Sure, we still had the 1 second reuse but spamming fade eats up a lot of mana quick in a class that doesn't regenerate mana very well at all.

    What I read here is that the devs decided after observation that the new class fades were not being used as a screaming terror moment escape from a bad situation but instead were being used as exploits in a variety of circumstances.

    As a bard main I have no sympathy for any of the complaints I've seen here. I am hopeful that this signals at least a partial fix for a core bard ability
    PCSS and Balthen like this.
  18. Angahran Augur

    Still waiting any DBG response to whether these % costs (when they have repeatedly stated they hate % based abilities.) are CURRENT or TOTAL.

    And has anyone thought how these will work with the recent 'no ports with agro' "improvements" ?
    Basically going to guarantee any failure with a raid will be complete wipe instead of there being a chance for a few to escape.
    PCSS likes this.
  19. Aelen Augur

    I like the consistency boost.

    I'm glad there's something planned to enable pet summoning, though I somewhat question a 1% mana cost in order to let us work around bad pathing or use the mobs backside on the move.

    I'm not too bothered by the cooldown. Little OOC utility stuff seems fully online, and group named can be escaped. Though it'll be harder for some of the classes to practice with fade going forward without making a bard or something to tool around on.

    I might suggest it'd be a decent time to also look at if some of the classes with a cast time on fade really need to have that extra complication in creating distance to get the fade to take.

    I question the mana cost generally. Since it's pegged to mana pool, it discourages mana pool building somewhat. Mana pool also grows faster than Mana flow from expansion to expansion, so people will get steadily worse at managing their fade. This means basically the only form of mana flow that fade will be well matched to going forward is OOC regen. This more or less also applies to Endurance.

    More specifically, I think this is bad for Enchanters. Encs do a lot of pulling, and have since classic. It's always been odd they don't get any of the puller considerations. The toolkit for CC and pulling are just pretty close to eachother, and its hard to carve out space for, and recruit both pullers and CC for a simple group, when they cannibalize eachothers role--assuming tanking and healing didn't already cannibalize that role. And the Enc variant will often be a train instead of a split. But besides that, Encs currently have pretty high spending rates, and since they don't really have up to date self management tools, just group ones that they share, Enc mana's pretty meh. Stack on 2 fades with 20% costs, and most Encs will probably only use Fade for some pretty rare utility stuff.

    And I suppose a fair amount of what I just said could be applied to Rangers. Not all, but a lot of the same arguments.

    Overall I think I come out of this with more stuff I like than dislike, but the costs raise some red flags to me.
    PCSS and 05KRYSTI like this.
  20. Inga Elder

    Bard Fading Memories ability is handled this way right now. However, if it is expanded to all classes, it will consume huge resource which is very scarce in current Everquest... the developer's time. Potentially, it will cost '1 less AA upgrade' for every class each time the level increase.

    Percentage cost may not be best solution, but it is a reasonable way to control fade ability with least developer resource cost. So, unless we offer better idea to deal with it, it won't be changed.