Power Discrepancies

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by Randomized, Aug 20, 2021.

  1. Randomized Augur

    Not between classes, but between levels. At what point does level X stop being of use to a group.

    Say level 10 I’m still useful to a group at 15, but useless to a group of 20s. But at 33, I may still be of use to a group of 45s.

    Scenario being: I used my HC on a Monk. Loving the class, but still learning and adapting. But feeling confident and competent. Roaming around HoT T1 and T2 zones doing quests. Rocking the heroic gear still with new weapon upgrades that I’ve looted along the way. Saw a 93 Necro that was LFG, and I had just dinged 87. Thought about responding but then remembered there’s a couple expansions between us even though it’s only 5 levels between our characters. With those expansions comes stat inflation, huge upgrades in gear and AAs. And mobs health seems to increase exponentially with each subsequent expansion.

    So I was wondering if anyone had a rough draft of when levels start to off for being useful? At 85 I can group with 115s. But I would be utterly useless and just a leech. And I’d rather be able to contribute.

    So say from 70 on?
  2. CatsPaws Devil's Advocate

    I usually stay within 5 levels of each other. This seems to be a good medium. Low guy is not too low and high guy is not too high. If we do a level based task or mission then the mobs should be good for all in the group.

    Putting say an 85 in a 115 group is just power leveling. And they usually die fast.

    But a lot depends on the player. Like did you get all your heroic only augs in HOT? That would boost your power.

    Is the other player up to snuff? There are a lot of player who get to high levels with auto grant or heroic (not saying you did it ;)) but have not taken the time to learn their character, spells or abilities.

    I would have gone with the Necro lfg. Then both keep an eye on exp etc. After all if both of you are using mercs you will have a good group.
    Skuz likes this.
  3. Iven Augur

    The PC class and group role does matter alot so it is not possible to define a general level range. Some classes can have a much lower level to be alot more usefull than other classes.
  4. Randomized Augur

    Those are very niche situations though. I understand certain classes can bring certain “benefits” while being a low level
    Rangers Auspice
    Druids Wolf form
    Enchanters Twincast/Regen Aura
    Shamans 2.0 and Kitty proc line
    Bards /melody

    I get that. But not being interactive is not contributing in my mind. That’s no different than saying my buff bots that stay in GL contribute to raid because I buffed everyone before they took off.

    I’m looking for a generalized answer. Like:

    I did, for the record, boost the Monk using heroic thingie lol. But I did do some research and talk to a couple high end monks and feel like I’ve got a grasp on things. I’ve been able to molo every namer I’ve come across in the T1 zones with ease. Practiced my monk split pulling. Only thing I could use a little work on is burn orders and setting up socials to fire off multiple AAs/Discs together. And I do have most of my heroic augs :) only missing a couple I think. Last few sessions I’ve been farming the Bouncers in Feerrott the Dream for that Bouncer’s Best Friend 2hb weapon. I’m 0/3 right now on getting it to drop :( lol. But I did get my 1.5 out of the way in only 2-3 days.

    And I’ll keep the 5 level rule in mind. It seems like a logical and sound number to go with. If I got to 105, how much would I be able to contribute in a 115 ToV group? Or is that better suited for 110?
  5. Graytis Journeyman

    I think Iven's is a more general response than you realize. The group role can matter quite a lot.

    If your group role is tanking, for example, it's very much a "I can tank" or "I can NOT tank" proposition. Unfortunately, you cannot perform in your role as a tank if you're not appropriately geared and AAd, no matter how skilled you are, if you are that far behind. You will be tagging along.

    As a DPS class, though, giving your all will still contribute significantly even if it isn't drop-dead awesome. You have degrees of contribution possible in a DPS role.

    In short, the role, independent of specific abilities, can dictate the feasible parameters for what you're asking.
  6. Randomized Augur

    Ah I kinda missed what he was getting at but your clarified it. Thanks. But my question still stands. And we can use the tank role as an example too. Let’s say I was an 88 SK instead of a Monk. Heroic gear/augs. Auto-grant AAs, all current spells/discs. And let’s say average to above average knowledge of the game mechanics/classes.

    And what point is skill undone by sheer power of mobs? Would I have been able to take on, say Shards Landing mobs alright? Would I have been able to group with that Necro and survive the quest mobs? (RoF is 90-95 right?). Where as I know trying to be level 88 and taking on level 95 mobs would be suicide just due to how much stronger mobs get through various expansions and how it’s reflected in how much stats are inflated even in just 6-7 levels.

    Like 5 levels like CatsPaws said makes sense. Say I’m 105 SK, full EoK T2 gear, I know I’d be able to tank RoS mobs for a group of 110s. But I don’t think I could go from the EoK T2 gear into the TBL T1 groups.
  7. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I think CatsPaws is probably giving the best way to look at this, when you think of how the game works each expansion after Kunark is only raising levels by 5, so having a max difference of 5 levels means you are going to be in a group that is expected to be a common type for working through an expansion at the start.

    If you are having a bigger level difference than 5 you are going to have to accept there will be deficiencies in the group, these may vary a little by class but as a general rule these deficiencies will be intimately linked to levels, a healer will not be seeing their healing spells resisted by a higher level target but they will be inadequate to guarantee that he can hold up whoever is tanking successfully, dps casters will see a lot more spells resisted and so their dps and the efficiency of their mana use will deprecate rapidly the larger the level difference is.

    You ideally only want to be "carrying" one lower level player in group unless the other players have a really good synergy or are in really good gear with a high amount of AA to make up for some of the gap, a 3 person group with a raid geared tank and current AA and gear levels will easily carry 3 extra weaker players through most current group content, but not necessarily all.

    If you have only 1 really strong character in the group then the better option is to play older content closer to the level of the weaker players and that allows the strongest player to more easily bull-doze through it, the stronger player will be sacrificing thier xp/aaxp gain to do that though.
    CatsPaws and Randomized like this.
  8. Alnitak Augur

    Most of the points above are quite valid and I'm gonna add my 2 cents.
    In my opinion, tank, dps and healer classes can not materially contribute to a group if they are 5 or 10 levels below the group level. Tanks can not tank effectively, dps is reduced and heals are insufficient.
    Perhaps support classes can be really useful. For example bard songs can still provide good adps even if level is lower than current, group buffs from a shaman, ranger (in support role), chanter are welcome even if 10 level below the best. Meanwhile a tank, a dps or a healer needs to beat mercenary performance first to be "contributing".
    I by no way mean that such groupping should not happen. I am all for it, advocating it, and groupped with lower level players quite alot. But in most cases it was, as mentioned above, a charity, a PL, a friendly act, and not a real mutually-beneficial cooperation.
    And about lvl 88 monk groupping with 93 nerco in Shard's Landing - could be a very productive team, quite level-appropriate for the zone.
  9. Tucoh Augur

    The window all depends, but generally anyone lower than five levels than you is more of a liability than a contributor. Same with someone near your level in totally trash gear, or no AAs, or doesn't know how to play etc. Many times the lowbie that's desperately getting carried to max level checks all the boxes for being a liability and maybe that's ok because it's funny.