Pound for Pound

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Clawbird, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Tolzol Augur

    Your number one rogue in my book buddy
  2. Mezacor New Member

    Nudia is the best cleric I know

    at stealth DA'ing unsuspecting victims
  3. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    The problem I have is it's hard to compare players from different eras. Someone who was amazing back in Omens of War might still be amazing in modern EQ if they still played...or they might suck. There is no way to know for sure.

    I'm also old and I can't remember peoples' names.
    Cailen, Metanis and Jondalar like this.
  4. shiftie Augur

    Andre from outcast...
    Beimeith and Sancus like this.
  5. Lulu New Member

    Warrior - Tubbiey Mcfat
    Shadow knight - Tallaared
    Druid - Kinaki
    Paladin- Raeyne
    Monk - Emil
    Shaman - Astrall
    Enchanter - Maddey
    Necromancer- Davood
    Cleric - Nerkina
  6. Bronut Augur

    You wouldn't know. You're not from zek.
  7. Bronut Augur

    Most people are just picking their friends. These lists clearly aren't #/logic based, but social hierarchy/skill based.

    not once was fleeting mentioned.

    i've been guilded 16 times since rof, i'm not going to make a list, almost none of the people listed would be on my list. i know most players personally in one form or another.
  8. Drogba Augur

    Most people that could probably put up a good list don't, so as not to indirectly call everyone else at x class a scrub. With the amount of players that Everquest has had, its also genuinely impossible to create a good list. You'd have to have been everywhere, all the time, while knowing the game inside out. And even if you had the ability to time travel, the amount of lifetimes you would have to live.. I figure most people have the sense to figure that this is just picking friends/people who impressed them, from within the small bubble in which they inhabit.

    To make a respectable list, you'd also need someone with a deep understanding of every class, to understand what is optimal performance in numerous situations. (Unless you were to simplify that problem and only judge something like DPS, which can run into its own problems, you'd probably have to name a few players per class when not certain still).

    Personally i think i could only judge 3 classes, clr/sk/wiz. And as with anyone, i'd be judging from within the bubble/s i've lived in. Which brings up another point, in order to have a good idea of the best players, you really need a character in ROI, and have alts moving around on other servers to scope out the other players. You can't just judge people on class knowledge from forum posts for example, many who talk the talk, don't walk the walk half as well.

    You'd need to rule out retired players/ peoples ghosts, or put them in a their own 'special mentions' category as well, because as Beimeith said, a player from one era isn't guaranteed to perform as well in the modern era.

    There's much more than DPS to rate too, you need to see these people in groups.

    On shadow knights alone, I could assess:

    Are they speed running when they group? hitting jetpack, hatestep to run from placeholder to placeholder? (or pulling a bunch of ph's and killing simultaneously, when that is faster. etc)

    Do they use their pet as an offtank to allow them to start their next pull sooner (if tanking at static spot).

    Do they measure the dps/adps/healers in their group to min-max the number of mobs they will pull next (And GINA triggers on others abilities to help let them know if they're up)?

    When not tanking, can they chainpull like a bard/monk or better? What if we put the group over here *marks a spot on map* and the mob that needs to come here *marks a spot on the otherside of the map* in this zone *insert hellhole here* where all the nasty stuff is. How deep is their knowledge here?

    In a raid, can they outaggression me without taunt or harmonious crutch?

    Can they rotate their discs effectively and time lifetaps/spurn/epic + melee abilities etc to survive where lesser sk's would not?

    Can they DPS?

    Do they try to deliberate pulse/space ae's as adds trickle in, as opposed to hitting a button that lazily activates all of them?

    On a raid, can they play the watchful role, and spot when some key tanks are about to die, and jump in to save the day before it = wipe? (Can put some tanks on ETW, look out for potential areas that could snowball)

    Can they kite tiny circles so that the mob is basically not moving?

    I'll leave out PvP, because thats not a thing unless you want it to be (#not all, PvP servers!)

    I could go on and on, and whenever i realize that x player isn't capable of doing even one of these things, then i feel that wine needs maturing. You have many of these things to judge of people playing other classes as well.

    I was tempted to bite and make a list of all classes, i'm sure a number of guild mates could make a better one than i could, i didn't want to hurt every bodys feelings though. Half of the people I named would be ROI anyway, despite having raided with like 20 different teams in 7 years (6 of them having been a top 10 guild at the time). Most classes I were to list would have anywhere from 1-5 players, with some special mentions in brackets where i have doubt/holes/caveat in my understanding. I don't want to indirectly insult any of my friends and guildmates by doing that, 95% of them are badasses on some level already.
    RPoo, Sancus, Tucoh and 3 others like this.
  9. Drogba Augur

    In summary,

    This is why you shouldn't take anyone's bound-to-be-ignorant assessments too seriously, and just have fun with it.

    And also why you should pick Drogba for SK.

  10. Ecchicon Elder

    I don’t really understand what is meant by “in order to have a good idea of the best players, you really need a character in ROI.” It is entirely possible that while successful as a whole, ROI includes not a single one of the best players in the game.

    I am not asserting this as an actual judgement of the observable, measurable, and demonstrative skill of any players in the game and to be clear I have no idea who the actual best individual players are class by class or any other metric.

    Otherwise, you make valid points in other areas.
  11. Drogba Augur

    You're right that there's no guarantee's. But what i've observed is there is a higher potential to observe a larger volume of truly great players in this guild. Many players who app have conquered their server and are looking for someplace else to feel challenged. I think MS probably stands on its own after ROI (some players would rather join a guild that dreams of challenging for #1 spot, instead of joining 'the winning team') and then the rest of the top 10 is more interchangeable for app quality i would assert.
  12. Bronut Augur

    First quote : i think thats my point, take these lists with a grain of salt, but you know i have to stir the pot. (i saw a post that, i know for a fact the person knows its not true. had to get my lulz)

    Second quote : He said pound for pound, you don't get to just ignore the half of the game and call it a day.

    The other thing is, i study psychology along with play a lot of eq (im no wiz) but i have a rudimentary understanding.

    1 -Some people on a fundamental level are incapable of giving individuals credit. their ego blocks them from having an unbiased opinion. Some people don't have this as a baseline perception but will embrace this perspective if said person being judged has upset their ego.
    If you're out to convince people how good you are that's a futile venture,

    A. No one really cares
    B. Its of no consequence. Unless you want people asking u for strats.
    C. Ive watched people on zek, get farmed on a daily basis, and still everyone else "Sucks" too them , when it suites people, most will judge with there emotions and put the blinders on.
    Drogba likes this.
  13. Drogba Augur

    pvp half the game. hah. spoken like a true pvp'er
  14. Littlelegs Elder

    I *think* he means he's been in other high end guilds and rates some top players in roi above (I do too, but context and stuff, who knows). In cumulative this is true in a content clearing sense, for a long time. A lot of big fish in small ponds have found themselves surprised (I count myself among them) at the skill gap in other players. However, any list or named player will be biased by the nature of the question.

    I agree we should be having fun with the thread. But to be clear, I do not know most of the players personally.
  15. bigpapa Augur

    if you take 2 players , same skills and all ,but one is good to play 3rd view and other one is playing tunnel view ( 1st view ), the one playing 3rd view got an edge. some class don't need it that much tho .
    /assist / nuke or target player /heal. I have seen so many players staying in bad auras, because they didn't see they were right in them.............and die.
  16. Ecchicon Elder

    I think “a large number of truly great players” is certainly the case, but the belief that the “best” and most skilled players are among them is based on various subjective pitfalls such as confirmation bias.

    There primary issue here is assuming that the barrier to entry into the best guilds is skill, when it is probably largely the result of opportunity. If there was an AI specifically designed to solve Everquest and be the best at ever class in all measurable areas, but the AI prefers the Luclin Server, it’s not going to be in ROI or MS.

    A secondary issue is worth mentioning as well. Specifically that there is a unique challenge available that motivates the best players to join the guilds you mention. But the most challenging element for a good player in Everquest is largely related to an external locus of control such as schedule. There are plenty of builders that will experience and complete all of the games content but simply at a slower pace. Moreover, it is certainly arguable that completely content in a mediocre guild is even more of a challenge than in a top guild. None of this necessarily has much anything to do with individual player skill.

    Motivation ties into many other reasons why any given player may not run into many of the best players. I only know a couple of people that played so well that I would consider them one of the best in the game. I know that one of them was always being pursued by ROI, but the player refused because he liked to play with certain people. I’m fact, if I’m being completely honest I saw one or two ROI videos that contained language I don’t much like to hear and I’ve heard from a few other people that they didn’t like the atmosphere in ROI. I apologize if it come across that I’m attempting to target and be overly critical of ROI because that isn’t my intent. I’m simply giving some examples of how motivation and opportunity are important to consider.
  17. Reval Augur

    You guys are getting a bit too optimistic here in this covert guild recruitment attempt of a thread. Let me help you with that.

    Sheex and Bronut like this.
  18. Drogba Augur

    I don't disagree at all, plenty of the best players i knew never spoke a word on forums, or didnt even join big guilds.

    I do think being in such guilds alerts you to more potential world beaters though. Where i might name 2-3 people in one guild, i might name 20 in a stronger one. I've known players who came to one server to appear like the ultimate dps machine, that were consistently 3rd place on most of their dps parses in a guild on their previous server.

    There's simply a higher concentration of talent in some places as a result of the guild rankings.

    I apologise if i'm coming off as a ROI recruitment mouthpiece or something, as it wasn't my intent either, heh.
  19. gnomeboss Augur

    can we get a video? i'm sincerely interested in seeing this! it's not that i don't think you can do it, it's that i'm not sure i've ever seen this done and it seems pretty legit! it would take some keyboard skillz and some stones if the mob was something that could wreck you. maybe you should kite with your pants off (in game, or irl, or both) to raise the stakes ~
    Cailen likes this.
  20. Tucoh Augur

    I can't speak to ROI, but generally agree with Drogba's assessment of this thread in general.

    When you're at the top, in a community of top players, there's a certain level of synergy where everyone is trying to both help and surpass each other that takes a great player and makes them a world-class player. You can see this in every field from sports, gaming, engineering etc. It's impossible to compare individuals inside this group to individuals outside it.