Possible Solution to lack of TDS raids

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Soltara, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. Soltara Augur

    I'm not sure if its possible, but would it be feasible to have a "Corrupted" Vex Thall or "Distorted" Plane of Time as alternate raids for TDS? Kind of like how corrupted NTOV was made. Just copy and paste events with strengthened versions of the loot already being dropped by the mobs.

    The reason i ask is I know the lack of raid targets is crippling my guild. I know it has been a hard jump for us from COTF to Arx Mentis, as we have been losing people due to them quitting or server hopping. Granted I am not holding my breath for more content, it just seems like 5 raids and 2 on/off raids is a little light for an entire expansion. Just curious is all.
  2. guado Augur

    Maybe Arx Mentis can fly over Freeport, crash into the Plane of Time, revert Freeport back to the original state, and supercharge the beings in Plane of Time up to level 105 difficulty.
  3. Iila Augur

    I agree, the solution to the lack of raids in TDS is to make more raids.
    Hiladdar, Ssixa, Mintalie and 6 others like this.
  4. Dramatime Augur

    I think what he was trying to say is that they are obviously stretched thin and that it would probably (and logically) make sense to do what he mentioned and just revamp and couple zones for which you already have monster's, use the same graphics just update loot. You can even leave the zone graphics the same just tweak the math of the damage done and such.

    It would still take work to do this. However it would take far less work then trying to make a new set of raids from the ground up.
    Soltara likes this.
  5. Soltara Augur

    Yes, sorry i was not clear. Writing posts on my phone at work tend not to end well.
    Dramatime likes this.
  6. Tearsin Rain Augur

    doesn't work like that - EQ isn't WoW, there's no internal scalability. they can't just copy/paste a zone file, turn a number to +500%, and be done with it.
    revamping potime or vex thall or any other zone requires them to basically build a new zone from scratch, it takes just as much time to make an updated legacy raid as it does to make an entirely new raid.
  7. Dramatime Augur

    I hear where you're coming from, but the geometry is the same and the same with the art. If they do indeed need to build the rest from scratch then they are at the very least saved the task of creating art and skins.

    They could also maintain the same pathing algorithms and collision algorithms. Hell they could kill two birds with one stone that way. They could "re-code" the encounter mechanics in a manner where they would be left with "scale-a-bility". This would be a great exercise in tweaking the method for doing this in house and also provide the much needed "new flavor" for the players.
    Hiladdar likes this.
  8. Tearsin Rain Augur

    no, they haven't - because the raid design team and the art asset team are two completely different departments that have no staff overlap whatsoever.

    no, they couldn't - EQ's system just doesn't work that way.

    trust me, i know what i'm talking about - you think this is some really simple thing, and it totally isn't.
    making a revamped raid zone requires building a completely new zone from scratch, it takes just as much time as building a completely new raid.
    there is no time saved in revamping old content, so whatever argument you may want to make about revamped raids being cool (and they are), one thing they are NOT is faster or easier on the dev team to make.
  9. Dramatime Augur

    I think they need a slightly more optimistic YOU working at EQ. And I'm not even joking. That first bit you just mentioned is a HUGE problem in many large companies. Lack of communication between very important departments and the end result is MORE work and larger costs.

    If they had better communication and more overlap between the coding and graphical design team do you think that revamping zones would be made easier, at least a little bit? Or even better in the future imagine an EQ where the graphical team worked more closely to the Coding/developing team? I bet we'd get a much better playing experience.

    You hear problems like this a lot between Engineers and Builders. The engineers come up with this amazing building but don't realize how INCREDIBLY expensive it will be to actually construct it.

    And to further your point about me having no real firm grasp on the matter and over-simplifying the topic you're right about that. I don't have the knowledge for it but I do know when people like yourself and those working in coding put their heads together and think about how can it be done rather then why it can't be done great obstacles can be overcome.
  10. Axxius Augur

    I proposed Uber Solteris several times already. Copy the existing Solteris, keep all the scripts and mechanics, and just tune it up to lv 105. It would fit well with the TDS lore too: players recovered an artifact in Arx Mentis that allowed them to reopen the portal on the top of Katta Castrum.
    Hiladdar, Ravengloome, Ssixa and 7 others like this.
  11. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Would make most sense form a lore perspective.
    Hiladdar likes this.
  12. Tearsin Rain Augur

    i don't know how many times this needs to be said before people start understanding it... that doesn't work in EQ.
    you can't just 'copy and paste, keep everything as it is, and tune it up' - the back end coding for how EQ works has absolutely no mechanism for doing that whatsoever.
    in order to make a revamped solteris they could copy the zone file itself, sure, but every event would need to be recoded from scratch, every NPC and spell custom built, every script almost entirely rewritten to accommodate the new info.

    think of it like this to get a better handle on why what you're suggesting isn't anywhere as easy as you think it is... take for example solteris event 1.
    Upon triggering the event, a five minute timer starts. You must kill all nine guardians and give each sister three of their items within that time frame, otherwise the event resets.
    There are also a bunch of adds.

    now, knowing what i know of how EQ is coded, this is what i can tell you about it:
    9 guardian NPCs were created, and within EQ's NPC database each unique mob gets its own number, so for the sake of argument let's say they are NPC #1 - #9. then each guardian has like 4 different adds, so that will be #10 - #14, #15 - #18, #19 - #22, and #23 - #26.

    to make a revamp of the event you'd need to recreate the 26 NPCs, tune and balance each one, and make a new entry for every spell they cast, and then make sure they properly cast it.
    the script for event 1 probably looks something very vaguely like this:
    [if 6 players standing on or around coordinates blah,blah - spawn NPC #1, #10, #11, #12, #13]
    again going off what i know of how EQ's code works, this is probably a situation where the NPCs the script calls for are part of the function of the script itself - ie, you can't just go in, take the script, and swap out NPC numbers to point to an updated NPC, you'd have to completely rewrite the script from scratch to include the new NPCs (because that's just how much of EQ works).

    then you'd have to tie the drops to the new NPCs, write the code for the sisters and what items they accept, write in the script for the 5 minute timer, bug test it, beta test it, then release it.

    pretty much a dev would need to recreate almost every facet of the event from scratch, so really the only thing that revamping an old zone saves on is the brain-storming phase for coming up with new event mechanics.

    so again... there is an argument to be made about revamped content being cool, which it is, but "oh all they have to do is copy and paste it and make the mobs harder" is NOT part of that argument, because that entire sentiment is 100% absolutely and completely dead wrong.
    Iila likes this.
  13. Voth Elder

    I think that's understandable.

    Now we just need to incapacitate the bureaucrats in charge so the team can put out quality content again.
    Ferry-Tunare likes this.
  14. Annastasya Augur

    if you think a level 105 Vex Thal would be something enjoyable to experience, i have to believe you never raided it when it was current content. The brutality of a trash clear of that nature would break my spirit.
    Mintalie, Caixaa, roguerunner and 3 others like this.
  15. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    It wasn't so bad, bottle of wine and drinking games, made it interesting to say the least......inc lots!
    Caixaa and Diptera like this.
  16. Iila Augur

    I'd HOPE it would be like corrupted ntov, where the trash was still there to keep the zone from feeling empty. But is nothing close to how it was back in the day. 2 minutes of a raid exploding trash with the hps of group exp mobs is a hell of a lot different than 3 hours of clearing to the next boss.
    Yinla and Ferry-Tunare like this.
  17. Momentum Elder

    If they're going to recycle content (but where is our new stuff that we paid for?) at least make it great raid zones like Solteris or Demiplane rather than sucky ones like Vex Thal and PoT.
  18. Kellaer Augur

    How dare you.
    Soltara likes this.
  19. Silv Augur

    All I have to say about VT is "Z-axis". :)

    That aside, VT was one of my favorite raid zones... of course no one would ever stand to have raids last that long with as much trash these days.
  20. Ferry-Tunare Augur

    You underestimate the length of time we'll all be farming the raid targets in TDS :D