PLer toxicity discussion

But how many "customers" do they keep because their lax approach to cheating? Theyll never release numbers, but it clearly makes sense to them in some way shape or form to operate this way.

I think the confusion around the "agreement" is that Holly and Crew cared much less about regulating Live servers as they did TLPs. They brought in all of the changes to TLPs that we live with today and are the reason that we have the quality of servers we do now (picks, AoCs, MotM etc).

If you locate and reach out to other "high ranking" members of the community that Mule is a part of, youll find the same conclusion, noone ever saw anything indicating some sort of agreement. And its now pretty widely known that it was just all made up.

Either way, whether there was or wasnt, isnt the issue, because Jchan and crew are DEFINITELY more focused on cheating than previous iterations of the company. But even with that increase eyes on making something happen, its just not happening at a quantity or quality that really says "hey, we dont want this in our game" It does seem like they take action, however to me it seems more of a (you did something that pissed off another player and got reported, and they discovered youre using 3rd party programs) type of policing. If you talk to or pay attention to the people on teek receiving these suspensions, a lot of them are "wild west" style players. Which usually results in quite a bit of reports against them.

Also thanks for that link, thats interesting. But I think it differs greatly from what were talking about. EQ scanning your HARDDRIVE is a far cry from what happens now, in which it just reads your processes. I could see how people would react in that way, to what they tried back in 2000.

Like I mentioned, im not going to go into specifics about the other 2 subjects, but I really really really find it hard to imagine they cannot do what needs to be done IF they wanted to.

To me the camp breakdown is fair. Why is me doing 6 and getting a camp and them doing 24 and getting 4 camps not a fair breakdown?

1A is only in regards to the Fed government doing something about it. You are on their turf and the Fed government isn't doing anything to limit anything.

100% agree on "SolB guy" - he's the one that actually inspired my involvement.

Some of the one's in The Hole are relatively bad, but they're mostly avoidable except for some epic stuff which is best done in a DZ because of them since they stick to very deep. (Got trained by one as I was a second from triggering Jaeil the Wretched - that would've sucked if they trained me 30-40 sec late)

Not remotely a deep tech guy, so to me at the tier I am (able to do minor tech support for relatives tier, still sometimes has trouble fixing more complex stuff - i.e. IPv6 got turned off on my network card but not my WiFi card, had me bewildered for nearly two weeks before I was poking around in the appropriate settings and was like "Why the %#$^ is IPv6 off?!?" and flipped it back on, then wham, everything back to normal with the wired network on this machine again) - I'd believe them to be similar enough to follow the same rule, if it's still followed 24 years later.

Dunno, my take has always been that it's been a continuation of that Brad era issue. But no idea, and unfortunately the person I still talk to is both not with the company and was merely CS tier. Haven't spoken to the Trion devs in a bit though, wonder if they'd give insight (or even respond to me after the long time it's been since Scott and I chatted) about such things, can't hurt I suppose.

taking a camp with a 6 box group seems fair to me, but i'm saying I don't personally think a 6 char box team is anything like an RMT AE PL group.

It seems like you feel some solidarity with them, like "people call me a botter when I'm not botting and people say I shouldn't get to have a camp to myself with 6 toons, just like the AE groups get the same complaints from the same people" and I'm saying the overlap between a 6 boxer and an RMT AE PL team is pretty small in my opinion. first of all, you probably aren't driven by RMT, so you aren't in a grey area at all (even if people whine about it) where RMT PL groups start in a grey area with their motivations and it goes downhill from there.

Yea, me either. Prior to Teek launch i had an issue where my 6 computers were not able to locate each other on my internal network. In order to operate KVM software they need to be able to speak to each other. I went down an insane rabbit hole trying to figure out what the issue is, only to figure out the router provided by my ISP was configured to restrict this type of access during an update. The company assumed anyone looking to have their computers interact in this way would have their own router and by doing it they were saving themselves calls from people who mistakenly did something stupid.

Took me 2 months to figure out what was causing it. I hate tech support.

Why is me rolling into Kael Drakkel with me and 40 of my bros well before Tormax is due not something worthy of calling that camp exactly? What's the problem with that?

Quantity doesn't mean anything, camps are generally a standard size that folks expect. No one would care if they did it in some method with separate camps all over the place, and you know it - but that's not what they do.

It depends on how many clients they have. I believe with the new meta they use two in group wizards so the OOG wizards will not win. So you just need 2 + some other goober pbaoe.

If you did 3 they would only be able to PL 2 people.
But it's just easy to 6 box 6 wizards, no way of losing.

You would just need to level them to 46 or so, once you have supernova you can level the rest of the way on that.

You would be able to insta click AA evac too. But they hardly did the evac/camp/zone trick on me. They end up wasting WAY more time in the long run.

Saw someone else mention getting banned. Yea it's possible, some will be reporting you for sure. Just don't have anything on your PC that will get you banned and you'll be fine. Trust me =)

Page13 and no action... Soon though

But that is what I am saying. Why do I care if they are only taking the same amount of camps as if they had put 6 in different camps? It is the same affect on the zone and the same number of camps taken. This isn't the days of 3 enchanters, a wizard, a bard, and a cleric taking all of Sebilis.

Most kunark dungeons are 30 or so to pop a pick from what I have seen. If they bring 24 or so, then I can just zone in with my six and if there isn't a camp I want available, it pops a pick and I can move.

Maybe we need a lower threshold for picks in Kunark. Maybe 24 instead of 30.

Shhh..... It's important they still get to believe that not only is their view important, its importance has the same weight as the silent masses who keep crunching kronos without constantly asking for and demanding things.. keeping the game afloat.

They could literally play any new MMO out there right now and have an epic adventure with a surprise around every corner and plenty of people one-boxing and looking for people to team up with to finish a list of quests...

Instead they sit in exactly Everquest. On the TLP server that is not doing the newer, more engaging/challenging content. And then run around in circles screaming at every person logged in who isnt one-boxing a rogue and trying to put a group together on the fly.

Who exactly is doing this screaming? And what's with the snark on TLPs in a TLP forum heh.

Your suggestion to legitimate complaints on cheating in EQ is to leave EQ? Let me guess, you avoid road accidents by never leaving your house, right?

Honestly, a huge part of the hassle with AE PL groups if you're thinking about just "giving up zones" to them is having to constantly pick through or sit there waiting an a FRESH pick to spawn.

Which would be better solved by on demand picks and/or the ability for a pick that hits a threshold to be "locked" from being accessed by others. But due to the coding need and potential server overhead, it seems incredibly unlikely to occur.

Honestly, the problem here is the AE PLer players, that make up a grand minority of the server population. And it's not even that they truly enjoy the playstyle, if they were given a server they could do it to their heart's content, they wouldn't bother because there's no market to get krono for it - which they of course undoubtably flip on the secondary market.

Your argument is the equivalent of saying "Hey, sure there's a crack den across the street, but it does mean that there's always a crackhead nearby to ask to play Uber when my car is in the shop"... you're ignoring the big problematic rule-breaking part for a small secondary benefit that isn't even THAT beneficial.

Again, Kronos do not necessarily keep the game afloat... only Krono sales do. If there's 1m in circulation and their payment system dies for Kronos, and no one is subbing anymore, game is dead soon after even though there's a million months of gametime still due for the players holding them.

Unless they start putting an age indicator on Kronos for players to see (never going to happen), you have zero idea how impactful your Krono click is to supporting the company. The only support they get is if you buy Krono from them from the store directly, you clicking a random Krono from a trade could easily have been funded a decade ago.

Every new post is doing the screaming: "I had a terrible time on Teek" "Its hard to LFG on tormax" etc.. Even the anti AOE posts are still essentially in the 'this is ruining my ability to xp without actually branching out beyond the 2 zones i know'... "Doing Epic quest bottlenecks on one of the largest TLP pop servers ever isnt somehow easy, quick, and uncontested.." etc.

Some of it is certainly justified, but its a long stretch to 'legit complaints'. I know you are trying to race to a strawman while avoiding every bit of context and content in my post, but understand this :

I want people to be happy. For them to be happy they need a reasonable level of expectation to achieve happiness. If they want to engage in MMO glory, engrossed in a magical world of possibilities with friendly faces and potential new friends around each corner with common goals encouraging teaming up .. blah blah blah.... Everquest TLP, especially in the first couple months, just simply isnt going to be a gameplan to achieve that level of gaming nirvana.

There will never be a supported pick threshold to let every goddamn person go crushbone/unrest/sola/guk/solb. There wasn't in 1999, either. But in 1999 people killed guards, they hit the karanas, they did cazic thule and runnyeye and beholders maze... they did bandit camps in exotic locations. They had roleplay weddings. GM Events. guild get togethers that weren't raid or even xp related...

The level of entitlement on TLP has always been what truly astounds me. This game we loved and cherished and engrossed ourselves in that created the memories that we loved. Yes, servers in 1999 had *thousands* online at peak hours. but they sure as heck werent all racing to everything. They werent all in guilds. They werent all in raid guilds trying to find the team that was doing fearplane every tuesday at 6pm EST sharp. Most of them didn't even know there was a dragon in permafrost or solb.

We cannot recreate that. That's dead, gone, buried. A wonderful-yet-deceased memory of enjoyed time past. What we have instead is the top 3% of each of those servers trying to relive and outdo past glory. It's just not sustainable. XP was slow it took people months to get to level 30, much less raid ready. People weren't on message boards acting like they were being oppressed that Solusek A wasn't a great xp choice at 6pm PST on a Friday. Screaming about how half their guild enchanters hadn't gotten their enchanter epic 3 weeks into Kunark because other players were also seeking out Verina.

So no, my suggestion is not to avoid road accidents by never leaving your house. It's to stop expecting a freaking holding company that milking the last juice out of a dead property to expend any of their resources and energy solving issues we've spent the last half decade screaming about on the forums. And the rare times they do try, they end up breaking mechanics and unintentionally crippling other encounters and spell lines and god knows what else.

Because the company doesn't have anyone knowledgeable and snarky to come in here and remind you that perma, runnyeye, mistmoore, paw, oot, and about a dozen other zones within Sol A's level range sit either empty or damn near. While you act like someone AOEing in Sol A is ruining the game and destroying your ability to reach max level by the second weekend. Oh by the way - Kunark is out at launch.. so there's another dozen zones you could be in getting that sweet randomized kunark gear in too.

I *do* feel for trade skillers who lose their ability to farm POI mats in POP era because of POI AOE scumbags. It annoys me that they lock down Seb, because there isnt a ton of great options 50-60 because they kneecapped the ZEM in CoM and other kunark high level spots. Some of these arguments certainly do have merit i won't pretend they do not.

But focus on being happy. Fire up Tormax and have a much chiller experience. Stop needing everything right this second and enjoy alternative Teek paths. Trying out a new MMO entirely isn't the worst possible idea, since you brough that up.

But stop demanding and expecting DPG to pull resources from their skeleton crew cranking out new live content to fix things that don't affect their bottom line much, if at all. Just because it's a problem for you that you won't take basic steps to seek alternative solutions to... doesnt make it something high on their 'to do' list.

For all we know AOE PL is what is actually causing the most Station Krono and XP potion sales. Yeah, makes me throw up in my mouth a little typing it out, but dang it its probably the ugly truth.

Miley, you're way off base...

First of all, they're not just "milking the last money out for a holding company" - they have many new products in the works, only major ones being the same IP - neglect of previous titles in the IP reflects poorly on the next, so long-term it's best to have everything presented in the best light to customers, current and future.

Second, anyone wise is "expecting them to do" things at any type of crazy pace - typically as a rule of thumb, this time of year, only time critical issues get any time tossed at them. Be it TLP or non.

Third, again tying a bit into the first, for every so many dollars new as a one time thing, (which as covered countless times, while difficult for players to track, a large portion of Krono are almost certainly not new) they're also risking (and losing at times) long term subscribers.

If and when we see them skipping new server launches and slowing down expansion releases, you may be onto something, those do show sunsetting on the horizon, but we're nowhere remotely close to that. They just lack nimbleness due to the focus on X projects in Y months they need to do with limited resources. Period.

There is a couple devs who devote some time to stop cheating. There are hundreds of people trying to find ways to cheat. You have seriously unrealistic expectations.

Treants in SK anyone? Heck I remember people sitting and killing a single bard over and over and over.

Part of the issue this time around is that they made one breadline server and made the other a regular server. If we had had Tormax be a Teek clone, things would be better here now.

I pretty much think that AOE plvl is what is pushing krono sales and high end exp potion purchases.